SPEAKER_03 0:13

Hello and welcome back to Empower Your Menopause, the podcast about health, happiness, and hormones for women, 40 and beyond. It's coaches James and Julie here, and we're really glad to have you with us again. Now, today we've got a great episode lined up for you with a special guest. We're going to be talking about the season that makes capable women feel like they've been stretched into human toffee, the holidays when you're really living the reality of the sandwich generation. So if you're caring for kids or teens and supporting aging parents at the same time and trying to keep work afloat and trying to sleep like a normal person, this one's for you. So we're going to be joined by coach and mentor Sherry King. We're going to dig into some practical ways that you can protect your bandwidth without burning any bridges, boundaries that stick, calmer evenings, and good enough systems that you can actually use when life gets really loud. So, right, get the kettle on, grab a cup of tea, we're going to switch views, hand over, and we'll speak to Sherry and we'll take you from there. So, Sherry, welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about yourself to start off then. How did you actually get into coaching? What prompted that?

SPEAKER_02 1:25

So, hi, I'm Sherry King. Yeah, I'm director of Sandwich Generation Support. So, how I got into coaching was over 13 years ago now. Um, I have used coaching throughout my whole career um in the NHS um where to help me with difficult situations and to work things through. So I've always wanted to give back, so I decided to train as a coach. So 13 years ago I did my ILM7 qualification, and then to build on that, to keep developing, I decided to do my ICF qualification. So I'm now um ICF qualified as well for over four or five years. So it's something that yeah is really important to me and has shaped my whole career and my whole life, really, in terms of big decisions and things.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Yeah, so those coaching qualifications, then so you actually have to study this stuff to be able to deliver it, right? Just for people who don't know what those initials mean.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

You absolutely do. It's um the ILM7, the first one I did, is the equivalent of a master's. So dissertations, um providing sort of proper transcripts and working through and doing essays, everything, the whole shebang. So yeah, it's it's a lot of work and a lot of um work to make sure that we keep up to I keep up to date as well, so to keep on the latest things and continue to develop um my skills as I go along. That's all part of the qualification.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Yeah, so for anybody who thinks that coaching is just asking people questions, there's the truth, right? You've got to really study this kind of stuff before you can start doing it. So tell us a little bit then. I think Julie and I understand what the sandwich generation is and what you mean by that when it comes to sandwich generation support. But for anybody listening who's not aware of what the sandwich generation is, and I'm assuming it's kind of like us three here, our generation. What is it? What defines being in the sandwich generation?

SPEAKER_02 3:17

So the sandwich generation is where you're looking after a parent or elderly relative, and you might also be looking after a child as well, and then you're in the middle. So in the middle of that sandwich, and you've got um both sets of responsibilities either way, and you can have children or you can not if you're a one-layer sandwich as well. Yeah, and it gets over six in the UK.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Sorry, how many people?

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Over six million people, six million people, yeah. Yeah, yeah, which is huge.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Yeah. So so what are the challenges then that are faced by people at this particular time of life? If you've if you've got parents who are older than you and you've got kids, how is that squeezing people's life, I suppose, and creating challenges that you can help them solve?

SPEAKER_02 4:05

So it's very much been everything to everybody, so you're trying to care for both at both ends of the scale, basically, and try and look after yourself in the middle, so it can come in manifest in so many different ways. You know, people end up feeling totally overwhelmed because they've got so much many things to do, and they're trying to juggle work as well in the middle of that as well. Um, or and it can have massive sort of physical implications in terms of stress and uh uh fatigue and that side of things, and then guilt is another thing that comes up a lot in terms of managing um the sandwich generation, it's we you know, lots of different things and lots of decisions that you make, and as I say, you pulled so thin, it's like you have to make decisions that impact other people all the time. So it's um it's overwhelming and it encompasses your whole life.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Sure. Well, and I just out of curiosity, like what would be the earliest signs? Because I imagine you're stretched thin, right? Everything that gets stretched too thin eventually snaps. Um, what would be the earliest signs that you're getting over your bandwidth or that you're being stretched too thin before you actually hit that crashing point?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

I think it's just noticing the small things. So are you feeling a lot more tired than you normally would be? Or mental foggy? Are you struggling to focus suddenly all of a sudden? Because your brain's so much taken up with everything else that's going on with caring responsibilities, you haven't got space for anything else to fit in. Or are you starting to be more irritable or snappy because again you're trying to concentrate and do everything? Um, and are you starting to skip self-care? You know, are you starting to not look after yourself as well because you just haven't got the capacity to do that? So there are lots of different things um that sort of it manifests itself early on, and then things develop can develop from there if you don't sort of look after yourself.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

For sure. And I imagine this is especially true because right now most of the people in this particular position are are, as far as women go, are in their menopause transition years. So a lot of this things that you just just described are also symptoms of menopause. So imagine the double triple whammy that that that that takes on. So what I expect there are a lot of there are a lot of myths around this, like a lot of people thinking, oh, I should be able to just handle it or push through, or you know, what kind of what kind of self-talk and I don't know if myths is the right word, but misunderstandings can can actually make this harder than it needs to be for people.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

I think there are lots of things. Um, so what kind of myths and things are out there? I think there's something about you have to be perfect all the time, you have to um be everything to everybody, you know, you have to be that superhuman thing. And actually, there's something about if you don't look after yourself, you can't look after anybody else. So I think it's really important that you have to look after yourself first, so that you then you're able to care for other people as well. Um, and lots of people think, oh gosh, you know, I must sort of push myself to the back of this and look after everybody else. But actually, if you do that, you end up in a heap, and then if you go down, the whole ship goes down. And so many people I talk to have said that that they've just felt that they've needed to put other people first in their caring responsibilities, and then they've ended up in a heap, and then it all goes wrong. So, actually, it's absolutely so critically important that you look after yourself as part of that. It's not selfish, it's really important to do so that you can care for other people as well.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

So, I think we've got a good idea of what the sandwich generation is then, and how that affects people, and obviously it affects people, and I imagine many of your clients might be women because they are going through, as Julie said, this double whammy of menopause and then being caught in the middle of two stools almost when it comes to who to care for, and we're coming up to a prime period where I imagine that this stretches a lot. I mean, what's the holiday season like for people who are in the sandwich generation? Does it actually exacerbate all these pressures? Do you think?

SPEAKER_02 8:23

I think with all of this stuff, you have a choice around how you handle yourself during that season. You know, you could look on Instagram and try to make everything in your life Instagram perfect, you know, everything looks amazing, but actually, you know, that's not true for anybody, is it? So I think it's about um again keeping those same principles of looking after yourself and working out what you can actually achieve within that period, and sort of almost stepping it back to what do you want from the holiday season? You know, what would be you know, if you could have one thing, it's about creating those memories, isn't it? Because you know, as you're caring for your parents as they're getting older, unfortunately, the sad truth is they're not going to be there forever, certainly, and things will have changed by this time next year. So actually, there's something about just being present and living in the moment and just it appreciating the little things.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

Yeah, I know exactly where you're coming from because I when I was my mum lives in Greece, I was over there in the summer, my mum's 92, my kids are 15. It felt as though we were being I was being pulled both ways by attention demanding from from both sides, but I absolutely can't stand conflict. I'm really bad at actually advocating for myself. So, as somebody who's in the sandwich generation, what would you suggest to somebody who's looking for some like framework to be able to put some boundaries on this and and mean that they can advocate for themselves?

SPEAKER_02 9:52

I think it's really hard in the sandwich generation to do that because there are certain demands and certain times where you do need to be careful, you know, particularly if you've got young children, you know, it and or parents who are at risk or anything like that, you have to, you know, that bit has to come first. Everybody has to be safe. But once you've sort of established that, I think there's something about um a sort of framework of keeping calm, then keeping clear, and then being consistent, so are sort of the three C's almost. So calm, so keep your tone neutral when you're having the conversations, being clear about focusing on what you can do. So being up front there, saying, you know, rather than saying I can't do this, it's actually this is what I can achieve, this is what I can do, and then being consistent and repeating those boundaries. So, for example, in real life, um, you know, a parent might ring up um at whatever time and want you to do a food shop, and you're just about to do something for your kids, and you've got to go and you know, you've got to do something for work as well, and you just can't fit it in. So rather than it's that take it being calm, being really clear that actually I can go to you know the corner shop and get whatever, and then tomorrow I can do a human online shop to arrive, or I can pop to the you know the supermarket tomorrow. So it's just those being calm, clear, and consistent, and then sort of that repeats that framework, and that tends to work in terms of sort of those boundaries there.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Yeah, I like the idea of adding on a I might not be able to do it right now, but I can do something tomorrow down the line because that is actually preserving the boundaries of what you're doing right now, isn't it? But it's actually not making them feel unheard either, which I imagine can be a challenge sometimes for people. When it comes to things like you know, you practice this triple C thing that you're talking about, you're clear, you're concise, you're consistent. How do you stop yourself from wobbling and letting that old you come back to the fore? Because you know, I know that my mum, if I started setting down some boundaries with it, she'd be she'd notice and she would she would probably make me wobble a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

I think there's something about with all of this about being authentic, being up front, you know, this is the impact it will have if I don't do this. So actually, you know, if I go and do a full food shop now, my child might not get what they need, and also I'm gonna miss a bat a deadline at work, which is gonna have implications for me at that. So actually, just being up front and saying and explaining why tends to help with people. I think rather than just trying to take over, it's very much sort of being authentic and being real and just saying, you know, this is the situation and this is what I'm gonna do, and then as sort of that consistent bit around keep repeating that in different ways, so that again it sort of becomes then that's the new norm.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Yeah, sure. Is this something that you can do on those days that are really high stress? And again, I'm thinking towards Christmas where people are being more pressurized. What can you do as sort of like a almost like taking that valve off the top of a pressure cooker and just letting things escape a little bit from the pressure that's on you yourself if you're finding yourself in this situation?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

I think there's loads of little things the and the little tips um don't take any time that you can do in the sandwich generation. So, really little things like can you sit at your desk or whatever else at work and can you do two minutes of deep breathing? Nobody's gonna know that you're doing that apart from you, but actually you can just sit and refocus, and that then helps you to be able to keep uh keep going. Or little things like when you're boiling the kettle in the morning for a cup of tea or whatever else, can you do some script stretches, some squats, just getting your adrenaline going, your body moving, that kind of thing can just help to, you know, it's not adding any extra time, but actually it's just helping you to reset and then think again, actually, just become back into your body and think, right, this is I can keep going now. So it's little things like that that make the biggest difference.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Sure. Yeah, that's great. And I know a lot of times just physical movement shifts our energy just enough so that we don't stay in our own head because that's often not the best place to be, especially if we're so tired and you know, so short on sleep. So I I mean, thinking about this, you know, we we to hear from people all the time they're they're not sleeping well, they're constantly stressed. I mean, why do these things make it? I mean, they're difficult for most people anyway, but why does this feel like it's 10 times heavier now for those of us in this position?

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Because I think of that overload and that overwhelm, I think that already you're you know, if you're not looking after yourself and you're sleep deprived, then your brain and body are overloaded, aren't they? So it then when you're trying to make decisions, when you try because it's so busy uh with what you're doing, there's so much going on all the time that actually if you're not looking after yourself and you don't feel on your best form or whatever because of lack of sleep, then it can impact how you think about things. Um, you can start you know changing your eating habits to try and keep that energy going because you need to keep going with the sandwich generation. You know, if you don't keep moving, you know, there's so many things juggling all the time that you need to be um looking after yourself and have that energy to do that. So sleep is one of the most important things.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Sure. So if we're talking about sleep, obviously having a decent nighttime routine is going to make a big difference. What do you recommend? Like if somebody could just say, okay, I can do this for I can do a 10-minute thing in the evening to wind myself down. What do what do you usually recommend that helps?

SPEAKER_02 15:41

So I think it's different for everybody, and I think you've got to find your own thing. I think what works for me in particular um is that first of all, decluttering downstairs before I go to bed, because actually I find it because there's so much in your head that if there's physically so much around as well, I find that really difficult, and particularly living in a house with three kids and husband and everything else, you know, there's a lot of stuff around. So actually just spending you know, two minutes decluttering or however long, just decluttering first before going upstairs, and then there's something next for me around making sure that everything's ready for the next day, you know, are the kids' bags packed, all that side of things, and then sort of leaving my phone as well out of the room, I think makes a big difference for me in terms of helping me to then be able to relax and to sleep and that side of things. Um, and then I very much um when it's time to settle down, I read. That's sort of my try as much as I can just to try and get out of my own head for a bit and just to go somewhere. It's like almost that escapism that then helps me to settle down and sleep. So that's my sort of 10 minutes that I do most evenings, and that really helps me then to feel better for the day ahead.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Sure, that's great. And I know for us, we're constantly recommending for our clients that the phone is it's not your friend, even if you think you're escaping with a game or something, you're you're not, you're continuing to stimulate those brain cells and and uh squash your serotonin and melatonin production. So so one one more question on this, just thinking about chaos, because like you said, we we may change the way we eat, we may, because we're just trying to get energy. What when dinner feels chaotic or we're being torn and we don't have a lot of time, what's your what I would I you could call it a good enough plate that that's good to stabilize and steady energy for people who are in this position?

SPEAKER_02 17:43

So for me, in an ideal world, it would be protein and then some vegetables. So, you know, the chicken, rice, veg, and you know, but I'm not talking, you know, in an ideal world it'd be brilliant to be able to cook the basmati wholemeal rice, all the rest of it. But actually, you might need a paschio rice, you might need a chicken breast that's already been cooked that you can just shove in the microwave or the air fryer for two minutes, and a bag of veg that's there that again you can just heat up really quickly. That kind of thing I find really helpful. Or for me, my ultimate comfort food that really helps me with energy as well is beans on sourdough toast um with a bit of veg at the side. Just again, that balance of just yeah, something for me that really works quick, easy, and appears.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

That's great. So, so if persp if if you feel that perfectionism creeping in, because it happens to all of us. I mean, we we teach this stuff, we coach this stuff, but we we also have similar struggles as coaches because we work with coaches ourselves, we know these things, but what when that those perfectionistic voices and that sense of, oh, I'm not doing this well enough starts to creep in. What how do you get in front of that? Do you have a some self-talk or some kind of thought patterns that that you introduce to yourself to to help stave that off?

SPEAKER_02 19:02

I think it goes back to that Instagram um view kind of thing that I mentioned earlier. It's very much, you know, we're in reality here. So for me, I keep in my head the sort of phrase, you know, you're human, not superhuman. You know, I don't need to be the superhero with the cape all the time. Actually, I can just be me, and that's okay. Um, and sometimes, as you say, good enough is enough, that's fine. Otherwise, you can't do everything all the time. So, um, and it's recognizing that, but it's hard, you know. That for me personally is a as a perfectionist, is um, yeah, want to keep working on, but keep certainly go through that mantra, keep going.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Yeah, I call myself a recovering perfectionist, so I can totally relate to that. It is it is a process, okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Sherry, we're gonna put you on the spot here, um, and give you a couple of scenarios, and you just tell us in your own world how, in your own words, how you would deal with them or you recommend a client would would deal with them. So we came up with the we kind of covered the first one, but let's just go over it again. So a parent calls you at 9:30 at night, just as you're winding down and you've got the house nice and calm and you're trying to get everybody into bed. What do you sift them? How do you diffuse that or move it on to something else?

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Um, my first thing is always to check that they're safe, that there's no major issue, because obviously, as you are in that care and responsibility, there could be an issue, so you never know. So, always to check that, but then very much um it's again that the calm, clear, and consistent stuff again for me. It's around making sure you're clear about the message that actually, yeah, I'd love to chat to you, but do you mind if I do it tomorrow? Because I'm just doing whatever, so give that explanation, and then being consistent about that, and then ringing back in the morning and having that the time that suits you, so not completely just leaving them because actually, you know, they obviously need to talk, and that's a good thing, but being really clear about your boundaries there and sort of once you've checked their safety, say actually I'll call you in the morning. So, yeah, again, they feel seen and heard and valued in that sense.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

Yeah, so scenario number two one of your siblings volunteers you to be the host again.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Um, I think with that one, it depends what you want. So, do you want to be the host again? You know, if you went if you are the host, I think there's something around being honest, around actually, is it your turn this time? Um, and what the implications are. But then I think if you are the host, because it actually sometimes logistically it makes sense for people to host because it's the biggest house, all that kind of thing, then actually being clear with your siblings of what you need again. It's can you bring starter, can you bring dessert, and can you bring it cooked, ready to go? So it's not like you've got to do anything. I think it's very much being clear around how they can help you and how you can do it together.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Yeah, I like that. Okay, so last one for you, then, and I'm sure that everybody who Listens to this, we'll have had this one come in. Six o'clock, you're just about to shut everything down at work, and your boss or a co co-worker fires off that you know everything's burning down email that they think is really important. What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 22:17

I think well, if you've got young children, that time is out of bounds, to be perfectly honest. You know, it's it's absolutely impossible to juggle that. Um so I think there's a conversation before that email comes. Um, once you're having sort of regular conversations with your manager to explain your situation, so that then when you're you've set it up already, so that when that email comes, actually you can send a text and say, I'm not able to deal with it now, if you feel you want to respond, or you can respond in the morning, um, because actually, you know, nothing horrific is going to have happened, is it? It's um it's putting it into that perspective, so it's very much managing your boundaries up front, um, so that then when that comes, actually you can remind them of the conversation and say, but at the end of the day, family comes first, and you have to look after your you know your family before work.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah, those are really important boundaries for sure. So as we wind things down, I mean, I I know we could probably talk about this all afternoon because there's so much so much to cover, but what what would you like to encourage listeners to try tonight? Like, what's the one thing they can do today put into action to think about how they can best look after themselves.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

So, and I always think of this um like if you had an extra hour in the day, what would you do? And then think actually use that. The answer to that question is think, right, that actually would help me to look after myself. So, can I do that now in a shorter form or whatever else? So, very much I think if there's one thing you can do, it's think about what's the one thing you can do to look after yourself that will make the biggest difference, and it might be, yeah, well, it could be anything. So that's great, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

I love that. Yeah, and self-care is I think a very high personal responsibility. So that's great. Um, what's your one-minute mantra? Like, if you have a if you're having a week you know is especially chaotic, is there is there a a mantra you use or something you say to yourself? Like for me, it's always it's not forever, just for now. That's one of my feelings. I think there's a couple of things, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

And mine is actually very similar, you know, it's each one day at a time, and I've got a cup that says that, and I use that regularly because sometimes it just everything can feel overwhelming, and things change, don't they? Uh particularly in the sandwich generation as things progress. So I think there's something about you know being present and it's that one day at a time, take every day as it comes. And I think the other thing is as I said earlier, if you go down, the whole ship goes down, and you just have to remember that to make you look after yourself, even if it doesn't feel important, even if everything else feels like it's it's shouting loud or whatever. It really is true. So I think those are two things that I sort of keep with me all the time in the sandwich generation, and I found has worked for lots of other people as well.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

That's terrific. Well, Sherry, thank you so much for sharing your insights. And again, I I hope we can we can talk again um on a future episode. But this has been especially great coming into the silly season, as we call it, um, for people in this in this phase of life. Where can people find you? And please tell our listeners if there's anything you've got going on. We'll of course put all of the links and everything in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

The best place to find out more about me is on my website, which is www.sandwicheneration support.co.uk. And I'm also very active on LinkedIn as Sherry King or as Sandwich Generation Support. And I'm also Sandwich Generation Support is also on Facebook and on Instagram as well. So come and find me or drop me an email, and I'm really happy to chat at Sherry at SherryKing.co.uk.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Fantastic. Thanks, Sherry. And from our point of view, if you want help building a calm 30-day plan for December, we've got some Black Friday offers on until the 2nd of December. So just I'll rattle these off quickly and then you can find out more in the show notes. We've got £13 of our menopause impact assessment. That means you it's gonna cost you just £10 or £13 US dollars. We've got £200 of our nail your nutrition, which is a highly personalised planned 17-page document, plus a coaching call with myself or Julie. Um, so that drops to £99, it's a massive, massive discount. And then for anybody who's in the corporate world, our menopause at work from awareness to action four-week workplace series is 20% off that. So we'll put links in the show notes for all those, but in the meantime, let's wrap up there. We'll see you next time. We've been James, Julie, and for this week, Sherry reminding you to stay strong and stay fabulous. We'll see you next time. Take care of the