SPEAKER_02 0:20

Okay, welcome back to Empower Your Menopause, the podcast where we help you navigate health hormones and happiness so you can thrive in midlife. It's Coach Julie here with my partner in crime, James, and uh we're talking about a topic that really hits home for a lot of women, especially in midlife, and that is boundaries. You may have heard that spoken about before. We're not just talking about the kind of boundaries where you're told to just say no. This is about deeper emotional boundaries that are going to protect your energy, your peace, and yes, your hormones as well. So we have two amazing guests here to help us unpack this today. Dean and Julie from Streetwise Defense. We're very excited that they're joining us. They specialize in personal safety, confidence building, and real-world strategies that help you stand taller, speak clearer, and stop saying yes when you mean hell no. Let's get into it. Um, Dean, Julie, welcome. Hi. Thank you for having us. Yeah. Um, would you like to give a brief introduction um of yourselves and then maybe talk a little bit in from your perspective what emotional self-defense is and why it matters?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Sure. Do you want to go first, Dean, or me?

SPEAKER_04 1:37

No, you go first.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Okay. Um, well, I co-founded Streetwise Defense with Dean around six years ago now. Um, we have Dean's got quite a unique background in that he has around well, at least 30 years, not without making him sound too old, at least 30 years experience in um in the security and um kind of safety area, including everything from being bodyguard to Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Russell Crowe, to go and work in security in hostile environments, to time in the Royal Marines and everything in between surveillance, working the doors in pubs and clubs, training government bodyguards, he's done all of it. So he has got this very unique skill set. And myself as a woman over the years, as many women do, have experienced lots of just not very nice things from um you know sexual assault on the street to sexual harassment in the workplace to relationships that have turned toxic. Um you know, street harassment, the list kind of goes on, and I think most women have experienced a lot of these things. So what we've done is we've kind of taken my experience of what those issues are, Dean's experience of how to stay safe, look after yourself, and we created streetwise defence. So we do all kinds of training in personal safety, violence prevention, and the physical as well. We go into schools and businesses and teach individuals and teach online and trying to put as much information out there as we can to help people stay safer. And as you said, one of the biggest areas is the emotional. And we always say we're not just teaching, you know, people think self-defense is punch and kick in martial arts. The physical is the last thing that we teach, and yes, you need it, but actually, there's so much before that that can help you stay safer and can prevent a lot of these uh horrible things happening to you, and one of those is boundaries. So it's it's such a huge topic and such an important topic, especially I think when you get to um this stage in life. You know, I'm 47 now, I'm perimenopausal, and you notice lots of changes going on. I've just waved my youngest daughter off to her transition day at secondary school today with a big sister, and you kind of it's new phases of life that you're going into with lots of changes and different roles that you're playing. And I think it's a good point to pause and think do I have to keep doing all these things that I've always done? Do I have to keep saying yes to people and things that don't that I don't like, that don't make me feel good, that make me feel small, that make me feel maybe a bit used. So I think that that's kind of where that's like my background and where we're coming from. And it's all part of if you can learn to speak up and know that you're worthy of protecting, and that's emotionally as well as physically, you can feel a lot more empowered in your life.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Why do you think, Julie? You mentioned that you're a menopausal woman, and I'll open this to Dean as well, uh, a fellow male voice in this in this space. But why do you think emotional self-defense has been missing from the conversation around menopause for so long? Can you see a reason for that?

SPEAKER_00 5:45

I think um I think a lot of it is just there's certain expectations in society, and the expectation of a woman, particularly a woman of you know, midlife, is that you just do what you're supposed to do. And you, you know, you you look after the teenagers, you look after the older parents, you do the work, you keep the house sorted, you hold everything together somehow, this impossible list of tasks that you hold together, and you just get on with it quietly in the background. But I think now that more and more menopause is starting to be talked about in the media, which is great, um women are just kind of saying, Well, I'm not invisible, and my life's not over when I get to this point, and it I can stand up for myself and I can say what I want to do. And I don't, I just think it's maybe that change in roles in society that is it's a it's a small and a you know step-by-step change, but I'm I'm noticing it. It's I think women now that are in their late 40s and 50s aren't seen as these kind of old, you know, women that are just kind of written off. You just start, you're just kind of getting into getting in. I feel like I'm just getting into my stride, you know. We're just starting a we're just starting a business, and this business, I'm not winding down thinking when am I going to retire? I'm thinking we're building this business up, and I've not got an end date in mind. So I think a lot more women are feeling like that.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

That's really interesting. Shall we talk a little bit about boundaries then? Dean, what's your view on boundaries? Why do we need to set them and why are they important?

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Just to touch what you just said there, it's interesting because there's a lot of social conditioning that we've been pre-programmed with, which I think a lot of people are challenging now. I had a really interesting conversation with a lady on Sunday, went to the gym, and it was a lady who was 50, and I I speak low, and she was like, What did you say? And I'm like, Oh, I must speak up louder, and she said, I'll get a trumpet for my ear. And I said, I'll get a microphone and all this. Um, and she said about her age, and it was like, Oh yeah, yeah, I understand, you know, it that certain age. I said, Oh, yeah, you know, hormones change. And I said, And it does for men as well. And I says, you know, most people don't realize that. But it was so refreshing that she sort of mentioned that. Um, but it was interesting how she kind of shied away from that. And I was like, Oh no, you know, uh, we've just done a podcast with um yourselves on that. Um, you know, I said it, I said, put more people know, and especially men, we need to understand it rather than shy away and going, oh, that's uncomfortable, you know, like our topic, it is uncomfortable. We've got to get comfortable with the uncomfortable to make it um more so we can understand more. So, like for for us as um men uh with our partners and everything, and other women in our life, we've got to support each other. Um, it's not shying away from something, it's like, okay, now I understand it more than I ever have. I understand what my partner's going through, potentially other women that I might interact with, and bearing that in mind, so I can have a bit more understanding, I can have a bit more tolerance, I can I can support more. Um, and and we've got to have these shouldn't be uncomfortable conversations because it's part of life, it's part of life that we're all gonna get to. Um other people that we know will get there, and it's like we've got to embrace it to understand it so we can support more um and not leave people out in the dark or feeling frustrated because oh, that's you know, that's uncomfortable. It's okay to be uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

But it's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 9:26

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

I was gonna say it's interesting what you said there about her saying, Oh, I can't hear you, I'll get a trumpet for my ear. And it's like making fun of yourself because you're 50. I'm like, I'm yeah, I think you know, as women, we need to stop doing that. We're not old. 50 isn't old, and we shouldn't be making fun of ourselves. And it there's a lot of that, yeah. Feeling embarrassed because you're older and feeling a bit like you're out of it, or you have to make fun of yourself. It's like you you don't, you're just getting, I think you're just getting started.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

Is that a way we lighten a topic that isn't comfortable by trying to joke about it? I don't know, because I was sorry, I was the same. I was like, Oh, I speak low, I need to you know speak louder. And uh is it just a condition we have because it is a little bit uncomfortable, which it shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Almost like a coping mechanism to help you get through the embarrassment of it. It's interesting. You look at sort of like remote tribes in South America, the Mayans and people like that, whereby achieving midlife is seen as a virtue. You're then seen as one of the elders in the tribe, and women at that age are considered so they've got a lot to give, and it's actually a goal to get to that stage, to be an elder, to be able to pass on that knowledge down the generations, and it's a revered position. But their symptoms of menopause, according to research, are much less than what they would be in the West, where there is or traditionally has been this shying away from from talking about or talking about in hushed tones. I often talk about my mum, my mum's 92 now, but when her and her cohort, her friends were going through, I was a little boy, but I remember very distinctly them going off into sort of like almost like little huddles in the corner and talking about this kind of stuff. And it was all whispered, oh, is she going through the change of life? That kind of thing. Whereas now at least it's it is becoming more open. So I wouldn't say that we've got to that stage yet whereby it is seen as a aspirational place to get to. We're not quite there yet, but certainly the conversation's opening, and I think that's only a good thing that people are talking about a lot more.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Social norms are changing. I mean, you youth is still the gold standard if you look at what's on social media, what's in commercials and TV shows, but we're starting to see a little bit more, you know, breaking in of I say in air quotes normal women. I mean, most of the airbrushed vis visions that you see in in media and marketing aren't real, aren't real. And then if if they are, they're like maybe five percent of the population, and the rest of us feel like that's something we're supposed to aspire to. And you know, the the commercials of the old cigarette commercials with women that I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never let you forget you're a man, you know, because do it all. And that expectation, I think, socially is just followed followed us along. So so we get to feeling guilty if we can't do it all, even though that's not really what we're meant to be doing as human beings.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

So can we talk a little bit about boundaries then?

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

I mean, you talked about like conflict, shying away from having difficult conversations a little bit, and I suppose setting your own boundaries is a difficult conversation to have. And some people would say, you know, as soon as you start setting boundaries and you start setting out these lines, that people can see that as almost like a bit of an aggressive move on its own. But your understanding, I guess, would be different to that. Why is it important that we do set boundaries?

SPEAKER_04 13:13

I think it's I think one of the hardest conversations is with yourself to understand your boundaries that you've got now and how you might want to change and adjust them. So important, and it can be considered because you're gonna if you're gonna change your boundaries or you're gonna set boundaries, some people won't like that because, like a friend of mine, and I've said this before, said to me, two kinds of people in the world, givers and takers, takers always take, givers will always give until the givers draw the line in the sand. So it's understanding okay, now I want to enforce my boundaries or want to set new boundaries, and realizing that there might be some potential conflict or some uncomfortable conversations. Because if I'm suddenly setting a boundary that says, um, I'm not going to come and see you, James, every Friday night now because I want to do something else, potentially you're going to push back because you go, Okay, well, why wouldn't you want to come and see me? You might take offense or it might not serve you. Um, so it's realizing that setting boundaries, people might not agree, we might not like them, but that's okay. That's on them. But if it's being ready for that as well, um, I think it's important to realize you're probably going to get some pushback, but it's okay because they're your boundaries. But I think that self-understanding as well. Um, because we do, I think, majority of people do it's very easy just to go along with things because it's a pass of a path of least resistance, because you can put up with that yourself. You know, you I've only got myself to sort of put up with. Whereas if you go against what somebody else wants you to do, then that's potential conflict or the uncomfortable conversations.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Yeah. I know a lot of times the the one piece of guidance that we get is just say no. Um, it doesn't have to be an aggressive thing. And you know, we often say when you say whatever you say yes to, you're automatically saying no to something else because there are limitations to what you can do within the 24 hours you're given every day. Um, but it isn't, I don't think about being aggressive with it. As you said, it's going to be leading to some uncomfortable conversations. But, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a fine line, I think, um, between emotional discomfort and feeling vulnerable as you transition into learning how to set those boundaries for yourself. Um, so I'm just wondering if you can talk a little bit about, you know, looking when that looking at that sort of that process and and how you can go from what feels emotionally uncomfortable to maybe feeling vulnerable emotionally or even physically with people.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

I think it's how you deliver it and the timing. It's all I think timing's important because if you're talking to someone who's very busy, that's not a great time to talk to them because I've got all this other stuff going. So it's trying to find the best time to talk to that person and also frame it in a way where look, this is about my this is a James, this is about our relationship. You know, I want to speak to you about this because I value your relationship and I value our friendship and everything that brings to me. But I need to speak to you about this. Um, and it's how you look at framing that for that individual person. If you know that person well, then potentially you understand um their characteristics and like that. So you could frame it in a way that it's gonna be more um, they're gonna take it on board more than you'd do that to somebody else. So um, yeah, and giving time to that, and also, you know, the the thing is our relationship, you know, I want to improve it, I want to keep it, um, try and enhance it, make it better. But then again, sometimes, you know, I've done this, I've stepped away from people, and sometimes it isn't a conversation, you know. I've just disconnected because I'm like, I can't speak to that person, they wouldn't understand how things have changed potentially in me or them. Um, because if I had that certain people I if I had that conversation with, it wouldn't end well because there would the conflict would rise and they would take offense, and I'm and I'm just like, I'm not gonna put myself in that position, not for them, not for me. You know, I still value the friendship that I did have with them, but uh things have moved on, and also realizing that people do change, you know, even in close relationships over a period of time. But I'm so different than I was 10 years ago. Uh, I'm pretty sure Judy wouldn't be with me if uh if if if it had been 10, 20 years, definitely 20 years ago, because I'm a different human being.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

I think as well, you um you need to kind of get comfortable with the idea that you're not responsible for the other person's emotions and for their reaction. So if you if something is bothering you and you've you've put some thought to it, you've decided what you're gonna say, you've picked the right time, you've spoken to them and you've explained why, you know, why you need to set the boundary for your own well-being or whatever it is, and you've been very reasonable about it, and then they react in you know, a confrontational way, or they attack you verbally, or whatever it is they do, you have to realize that you're not responsible for their reactions, for their emotions, and it's okay, you can just let them let them deal with that. You don't have to try and then back down and change your boundary or come up with a some different solution because you've already decided what's the best route for you, and it's a reasonable route, it's a reasonable um idea that you've come up with. So you don't have to change that. They they you have they have to deal with their emotions. And if they are a good person that respects you, they should respect your boundaries. And if they don't respect what you're saying, and they don't respect your boundaries, then that is a sign that they don't respect you as a as a person, and and that is a red flag in that relationship, and you need to think about you know how to deal with that, like like Dean said, whether there is some distance that you need to create, um uh and kind of just rethink the the situation a bit there.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

I think you're realising as well, communication is so vital because when communication is misunderstood or misinterpreted, then that's when conflict can happen. You know, people fall out because there's a misunderstanding. So how we communicate with each other is massive, and that goes from verbally to the words we use to you know our body language, everything counts. So um, it's to realize when we do communicate our boundaries, to communicate them clearly and so they're understood. And if that is asking the person to just verify, or do you understand what I mean? What does this mean for you? So then you can actually understand what you've said and how they've interpreted that. Then if they say something and go, No, that wasn't what I meant, this is what I actually meant. So everything is crystal clear, and like Julie said, then their response will is a reflection of them. So hopefully, if you've got strong relationships, you know, people will take the time because relationships are key and so important. All I can say from a personal side is my relationship with Julie. Um she's helped me in in such a way that when we have conflict or we have disagreement or something's bothering her, she will tell me. And I always know sometimes that's uncomfortable for me. And you know, sometimes I might sort of, you know, my instant is you know, um, be defensive. But in my mind, I know that um because of our relationship, Julie's always coming from a place of uh love and concern and trying to make our relationship better. So if I could I always pause and go, hang on a minute, whoa, whoa, whoa, might be difficult to listen to. I know it's not an attack because this is about enhancing our relationship. So it's that understanding that we have that we can talk and approach subjects rather than letting them build up, and you know, things build up, and then all of a sudden you explode out in the emotion. And oh, I'm frustrated with this. It's like, no, address them as quick as you can um so they don't build up, so you can make things better, and it's trying to get on the same page with whoever that person is relationship wise to go. This is about our relationship, this is about being stronger together and being honest, which sometimes isn't easy. But as long as you're coming from a place of love, care, concern, I think that's important that if you both know that, then that you're not feeling judged. Or attacked, you go actually, this is about the the the combined person.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah, the bigger picture. It's interesting, isn't it? How we a couple of things. First of all, we get here and and things start to get uncomfortable, and we just we start creating that gap rather than then confronting it because it is it can be uncomfortable. And uh where is it in our lives that we learned that we can make people feel things? I I've never quite understood that. You know, you make me feel. I I don't think that's possible.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

It's it's it must be a childhood, it must be something from childhood or societal. Um yeah, it's strange. And and I catch myself saying things sometimes with the kids, and then I think, no, I get to choose how I react. It's just it's an ongoing process of kind of self-development, really, and and noticing things.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

I think it's a coping mechanism, isn't it? Because self-blame is hard, isn't it? You know, it's that uncomfortable when you look in the mirror and you go, these are my faults, that's hard to own, isn't it? Because you're being brutally honest, and and and that's like I always say when we train, you go, we understand the self is massive. Okay, what are your faults? What are your characteristics? What's the good bits? What's the bad bits? Um, and I think it's a coping mechanism that we we get as children to sort of go, it's not me, it's them. Yeah, you know, then we can justify it because going, well, actually, is that me? You know, I look back how I've changed over the years and I'm like, I'm responsible for relationship, relationship break, breakups, and all sorts, you know. Um, and I I I know it now, I own it now, but at the time, you know, it's like pointing a finger, it's everyone else, it's not me. But hang on a minute. Actually, I have a role, I have a part to play in everything I do. So I've got some impact at some level. So it's owning it and going, okay, um, yeah, it's how I interpret that, how I want to, like you just said then, Julia, how I want to process that because outside I can't control, but inside I can, as but it's not quite easy, is it? Sometimes because we're emotional.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Sure, sure. We're all products of our environment, our upbringing, the relationships that we've had, etc. And you know, Julia, you mentioned the kids just there, and you know, anybody who's had children will have recognized what some of the challenges are when particularly when they're going to teens and they start becoming challenging back to you. But nobody teaches you how to parent, do they? It it's a learned experience. Quite often I can see my experiences reflecting back from my own upbringing as uh as I'm as I'm talking to the kids. And so I think that introspection that you were talking about, Lady, and that uncomfortable introspection is often a really good place to start to examine potentially our own roles before we even start maybe having the conversations that we we want to have with people when it comes to setting the boundaries and just making sure that we're clear, crystal clear on exactly what it is that we want in all that.

SPEAKER_04 25:06

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

I'm starting to form a little sort of like some notes here about some of the things that have come up because I think we're actually coming up with a quite a nice little sort of like structure for people having what I'd call a crucial conversation, right? Because these are conversations with people that matter to us in some way, shape, or form, whether it's an employer, whether it's a loved one, whatever it may be. So I'm trying to recap some of these as we go along. But correct me if any of these are wrong. So I've got find the right time to speak to somebody. So when you want to have one of these conversations, make sure that you are that there is you're both in the right space to have the conversation. So don't try and catch somebody off guard if you want to sit down and talk about something that you consider to be serious and you consider to be a priority. Be clear about what it is that you want from the conversation. So make sure you you're aware of what it is that you're asking the person, what the boundaries that you want to set, and more importantly, why it's important to you so you can share that with the other person. And I think one of the things was communication is a lot more than just verbal, so it's examining our body language when we have these kind of conversations as well, and then also check in with the other person's understanding of what it is that you've tried to share with them to make sure that it's with that you're sharing it in a way that they've understood that you want them to understand it. Is is that about right so far to read that?

SPEAKER_04 26:37

Yes, but I would say as well, from my experience, and this is this is a couple of days ago, um sometimes how I respond to Julie, my tonality rises. Um, and I I'm aware of that more now because Julie points it out to me. I'm like, okay, I'm I'm not attacking, it's just I get a bit like my emotions rise up. Um Julie points it out to me, and it's makes sometimes makes you know, it's like just talk normally. I'm like, okay, right, yeah. So I'm more aware of that now, how my tonality rises as well. You know, tonality is a big thing. If I suddenly raise my voice, it can you know seem as I'm being intimidating or or potentially getting more emotional or maybe aggressive. So it's trying to understand tonality as well, how you deliver it, um, you know, what mannerism you're delivering it in. Because, you know, if I suddenly start talking like this and I raise my voice, that's a very different from if I suddenly start talking like this, you know, in a calm manner, that can stress people out and you know, trigger people as well. So it's it is trying to be very self-aware of um how you're putting that across and all these elements to it as well. Um, we do share micro expressions as well, which is interesting. As humans, we cut um communicate non-verbally. Uh, it's very hard to hard these micro expressions, and we do pick up on them. So it's to, you know, be genuine as well, I think, as well, you know, come from a place of love, concern um, and authenticity.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

And I think while you're having the conversation, it's just it's just important to almost like try to be very present with what you're saying and what you're doing, so you can almost be taking that pause. Because if things do start to get a little bit not even heated, but you know, there's a bit of a backwards and forwards, it's just knowing that you can take a pause, you can take a break, you can say to them, Oh, well, look, I'll come back and talk to you about it later, and maybe this isn't a good time. Noticing in yourself, like Dean says, noticing um your body language, have you got your arms crossed, have you got a hand on the hip, which is what I find myself doing when I'm trying to talk to the kids. Um, all of those kind of elements. And then almost, you know, I I think that was a really good list. I'd almost say go back if you went right back to the very beginning and you're thinking about boundaries in your life, I would say it's it's almost worth having a sit down with yourself over a cup of tea or whatever, and just to think, right, what things in my life do I feel a bit resentful of at the moment? What's really irking me? What's getting on my nerves? What are the things that I don't enjoy doing? I don't look forward to doing. And then, you know, maybe even write yourself a little list, think about them. You can't, you know, you can't change everything at once, but just pick one thing that you can work on, maybe some, maybe one of the easier areas and try it out. And then you can start to just look at all different areas because you don't realize how many things you take on and you do for other people. I'm not saying don't do for other people, because you know, but you do to for other people at the expense of yourself. So I think that little process right back at the beginning, and you could even, you know, map out right, what is it? How much what what is the issue that I've got with it? Oh, it's my time, or they don't, they're not grateful for it, or it's always difficult, or I get pushback, or whatever it is, and then you could start to think, right, how can I tackle it? When can I tackle it? How's the best way to do this? And then go through all the steps that you said. And and then, you know, once you've dealt with one of those areas, go back and pick another and work through it rather than I think we all just go through life without stopping and reflecting on things. And there's probably, I would say pretty much everyone will have areas in their life where they can improve on their boundaries if you stop and kind of take that time out to to reflect on it.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

I think it's on what's important and what's giving you what of the things that or what of which of you the responsibilities that you've taken on? Do you actually prioritise in the value and the joy that it gives you? Which can you do you have to do per se? I mean, you can't stop being a parent, can you, for instance?

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Um, and then trying to sort of like come to terms with how you want to handle each of those almost like a separate stream, I guess, of thought of going through the process again and again and again. That's where you want to.

SPEAKER_04 31:14

I think there's a good thing to look at there as well, is if when you do that, I think it's very important, like what you said then, is to do that, stop and look at all areas of your life, excuse me. And when you get that resistance to, oh, I've got to speak to that person, dig into that for yourself and go, where does that come from? You know, I know some you know, am I people pleaser? Do I just I used to do that with work? I was soon as a phone call, yeah, yeah. You know, and and there's reasons for that. Um, but then it's analysing why do I just say yes? Why am I putting work before my family? Why am I doing this? What do I have to? And if I if I don't, then what's making the uncomfortable bit within me? And that, you know, like you said earlier, it's it's you know, the childhood, what we experience there creates the person. So, you know, it's it can be a difficult one, but it's also can be very enlightened to understand how you know our responses to situations and peoples and why we do certain things. And if you can understand that, then potentially that can give you the answer to why you won't change your boundaries or or how better to change your boundaries for you. That self-understanding is massive.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah, and I think we spend a lot of time thinking about what we don't want because it's a it's a self-protection mechanism, but we don't get really crystal clear on what we do want. And so I agree, Julie, having and Dean, having that conversation with yourself and doing that reflecting and understanding and getting crystal clear on what you do want, because when you can really see that, it probably makes the conversation a bit easier because you have that why, that deeper reason in mind rather than just saying, well, just because I don't like this particular thing, right? It gives you it gives you the positive. And and uh I think that probably going working towards something is easier than trying to stay away from something else.

SPEAKER_04 33:09

I also think be kind to yourself, do you know, little steps, you know, so it's a big thing. You know, if you're trying to set boundaries that you've never set or you're changing boundaries that you've had for many years, be really kind to yourself, and any little change you make is a change and build on that, like everything. You know, little steps, little bits, little bits, they'll make into big bits. So, yeah, be kind to yourself, be easy, um, and just give yourself credit for any slight little changes or adjustments you make within your boundaries because you can build on that.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Right, cool.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Quick question within all this. A lot of the things that we've talked about so far are about conversations that we might have whereby you could characterize them as having an element of love or caring about them, yeah. How do you set boundaries with your with your kids, with your family, and things like that? Does this change? And I'll throw this open to all three of you. If it's something that you don't love that's in the midst of this, say you're getting put upon at work, you're a woman who's over 40, you've been overlooked for a couple of promotions, you know, they're working you all hours God gives, you feel as though you've been taken advantage of. How does the does the conversation then differ when you almost have a financial reason not to upset the Apple cart? How do you go about that? I suppose is the question because that feels like it's a deeper conversation than sitting one of your teens down and saying, look, this is coming from a place of love. Um and I want us to improve our relationship. Might be different if you're in the workplace because I I don't know.

unknown 34:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

Yeah, Judy, you've got something you can yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Yeah, I mean, it is it is different in the workplace, and it's it's gonna depend it's drastically on the the characters that you're dealing with in your workplace, but ultimately every employer has a duty of care towards its people, and if they want the best from you, then they should treat you, you know, in a way that's that helps you be productive and have um, you know, the best well-being that you can. Not all employers are like that, and I had I had an experience um when yeah, years ago, when I was in a workplace and I um I really did need that job, and I needed the job financially because I was on my own with the kids, and I had to do the job and I didn't enjoy it. And the the boss at that company wasn't treating me very nice. He was veering between making unhelpful comments about my appearance in front of the team, which was mostly men, things like he'd like grab hold of my arm, hold it up and say, Oh, there's more meat on a chicken drumstick than on you. He'd walk past and flick my hair and say, Oh, you haven't done your hair today. Is that why is that you know, is that why you're late in today? Veering to the other end of the scale, going, send an email saying you look beautiful today, how you're gorgeous, you know, have you put lipstick on this lunchtime? It was a full array of just really uncomfortable, creepy behaviour. And I really needed, I really needed that job. And me back then, not being as strong as I am in my boundaries now, tried to do the thing that a lot of us do in laughing it off, brushing it off, trying to change the subject, trying to just not face it head on because it was just too uncomfortable, and because also I knew the kind of character that he was. And um, you know, as time went on, I did face some of these things, and I did go and say, Well, you made me really uncomfortable when you did that. And then I would get back, oh, you're being too sensitive, and you're overreacting. I didn't mean it like that, and it's just banter, and that's what we do in the office with the lads. We have banter, and you know, why can't you join in and you're making it uncomfortable now? And eventually it got to the point where I'd I'd had enough, and I wrote down in an email and I sent, you know, it said, I just want to make this really clear. I don't want you to touch me, I don't want you to make comments about how I look, and I I really want to carry on the job, and I really want to work here and I enjoy working here, but can we just have a professional relationship? And unfortunately, it all blew up because he he couldn't accept that, and I then had to deal with the consequences of him saying, right, well, you you should leave now, you have to leave because you've made it too uncomfortable. And I did leave, and I actually thankfully had a friend that was a solicitor and she helped me, and we went through we didn't it didn't go to court, it went through ACAS and I was supported, and it was a horrible, horrible situation to go through, and but and you know, and I did need that job, but I was there is always another answer, I think is a point I'm trying to make. You've got to try the best way that you can to talk to work and to deal with work, and you know, maybe I didn't handle it the best way I should have. I think it would have ended up the same, whatever I did, to be honest. But as much as you need the job, you need to have feel comfortable at work. And I dreaded going to that job, and I felt uncomfortable and I felt anxious, and I might my digestive system was a mess at that time, and it's not worth it ultimately. And there are processes, you know, if you're in a big company, there will be HR processes that should help you. If you um this wasn't a big company, but there are still other you know external systems that will support you with that, and I did get um paid out for that because of what happened, and that tidied me over until I got another job. So I think you've just it's it's it's not nice to have these conversations, but we shouldn't have to tolerate that. And I I you know, I look back at that that version of myself and I think, what I wish I hadn't tolerated that because it's not it's not right and it's not fair, but I am glad that eventually it took me a long time. Eventually I did stand up, and I hope that in that company now they will think twice before treating another woman like that. So it's sometimes it's just not going to go the way you want it. When you know, I set that boundary and I said, I don't want you to do these things, which is a reasonable boundary. And certainly if someone had come to Dean and said, Please don't make those comments, please don't put your arm on my shoulder or on my leg or whatever, I'm sure he would have been absolutely mortified and said, Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't realise I was doing that. But the reaction tells you a lot about the person and the response you're going to get. So I've kind of gone off on one a bit there, but it's these things you think you you kind of put you you go through things and you experience it and you move on, and then you don't realize actually you've tucked it away somewhere and it's it's deep in you and it does affect you, but you you know, you deserve to be treated well. And if your workplace isn't treating you well, even if it's just even if they're just putting too much work on you, you've got every right to say, you know, for my well-being, I'm feeling overwhelmed. Can we have a chat about it and make it a formal thing that you make it a meeting that you sit down and you ask, or you put it in writing? That's the other thing I'd say. Anything with work, always put it all in writing. So you've got the um the evidence there.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

I think what's important what you said there is get support. There's so much support out there now than there used to be. You know, you look back 20, 30 years, these conversations never happen. It was just what happened, you got on with it. Like my mum said, things happened to her, she's 84, bless her. Um, awesome mum. Um, things happen, that's just what you did, you got on with it. And it's like, that's not right then, and it definitely isn't now. So, you know, take strength in like you then to share that story, which I know is uncomfortable. Um, but people I hope will get a lot of empowerment from that to go, yeah, you can stand up. There is support groups, there is communities like what you've got here. You know, you've got you're supporting people in that phase of life where you can come together, you can talk about this because people are on the same page. So, you know, always realize people are probably going through similar, there's lots of good support out there, and plug into that. Don't suffer alone or struggle alone. There's help out there for sure.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

And even when it comes to needing a job, I mean, I I look at a similar thing when we look at the medical side of this and the health side of this, it's costing you, it's costing you your health, it's costing you your physical health, your mental health, your emotional health. And those are very big prices to pay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

Priceless.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

You know, yeah. So, so finding solutions, finding ways to to have those conversations, I think is uh is really important. I used to work in HR, so I can appreciate how much that's needed.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

I think as well, in it, you you know, understanding people have probably gone through similar uh and you're you know, like I just said, you're not alone. Um, and there is answers, there is support, there is things you can do, and it might seem daunting at the time, but like everything, can it? You know, we you reflect back and you go, Well, what a journey we've all been through.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Um, and it's sorry, my dog's just um joining in in the background.

SPEAKER_04 43:00

It's taking that first step, you know, taking that first uncomfortable step. Once you take that first step, you go, okay, right, let's take another one.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I think the anticipation is harder than uh actually doing it.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Yeah, because we create all this stuff in our own mind, don't we? That the cope at the defense mechanisms and and all the reasons why we shouldn't do something when you like you said earlier, look at the positive, what you want in your life, because that's more powerful.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yeah. Because when I was accepting all those things that he was doing, I was feeling sick, I was feeling anxious, I'd tearful. And I was putting myself through that rather than having the conversation, because in my mind, the conversation was hard, was harder than having him do those things to me. But when you look back on it, it wasn't that having those things done to you is harder because then you've got the added thing of I didn't stand up. I should have said this, I should have said that. So I mean both both both of them are hard to be honest, but at least with one of them, you are sticking up for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Yeah. Choose, choose your hard, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Excellent. Well, I I think we could probably carry on chatting about this all day, but there are a limit through our uploads and things like that. So we'll probably start drawing things to a close. But just for both of you, Dean and Julie, Julie with an E, what's the one thing you wish every woman over 40 knew about emotional self-defense?

SPEAKER_00 44:35

For me, it's it's that it really is that you are worth it. It's you are worth putting first. And you know, as women, we're often taught that we put everyone else first, but but it if if you're not if you're not in full health, if you're not as happy as you can be, if you're not living a happy, joyful life, then you're not giving of yourself in the way that you would want to. So it's just really knowing that you're worth all of this. It's worth those difficult conversations, it's worth spending some time reflecting on areas, boundaries in your life that you want to improve, and just um really just believe in yourself.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

Yeah, definitely. I I don't what anybody ever says to you, you are worth protecting emotionally and physically, you know, and whatever you've been through, whatever you've suffered, whatever anybody said, you're definitely worth looking after emotionally and physically. I don't care who it is. I always say you could be the Pope, the president, the king, the queen. You know, nobody has a right to tell you anything different or hurt us physically or emotionally.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Tell us a little bit then before we go, uh, for people who want to know more about what Dean and Julie do as streetwise defense. What just share a little bit about what it is that you offer and where people can find you if they want to if they want to get in touch with you.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

Yeah, sure. So we're trying to well, we are bringing self-defense, stroke, personal safety into 2025. It is a massive topic. You know, we do cover the physical, but there's a lot of stuff we need to understand before human behavior, human psychology, human interaction, the reality, the uncomfortable truth, the statistics that we know. So it's a very different look at personal safety, self-defense, um, and empowering people to realize it's a vital life skill. We have to be able to keep ourselves safe emotionally and physically. Um, so it's a different look at what most people think self-defense is. Um, do you want to add to that, Julie?

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Yeah, um, I think if if people want to find out more about us, if they go to streetwise defence.com, they can find out about all our training there. You know, we go into businesses and do sessions for businesses, we go into schools, community groups, and we do private training. We've also got online courses because we want this to be as accessible to everyone as possible. So, courses that you can learn in as a little as an hour, you can get a basic good understanding of self-defense. And then we've got um a course called Seven-day Self-Defense for Women, which over the course of seven days, it's an online course. You do around an hour a day of training, and it covers everything from domestic abuse to um the physical to understanding different types of bound uh violence, setting boundaries, how to verbally de-escalate, all those different areas that kind of give you an all-round sense of safety and empowerment. We've also got loads of free resources, like we've got our podcast, Self-Defense for Women, the blog, there's um there's a lot of information there. So if you go on to streetwise defence.com, you can have a look and um, you know, just start taking back. We always say it's about taking back your power, because I think for many years, women have been told that they're not powerful and they're not strong enough physically or emotionally. But if you look back through history, um women are powerful, massively powerful. And it's about taking that back and just feeling that confidence and empowerment in in all parts of your life.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

Women are warriors, you've got to look at history. I always say this when we deliver our training is if you look at the history of women, they we've stood side by side in battle. Yeah, women are warriors. Um, just want to say on the seven-day course, Julie's revamped that this year. It's awesome. You know, I'm obviously I'm a little bit biased, but it's a handheld step by step that Julie takes you through every day. So the support there and everything, there's no macho BS, you know, it's reality-based, um, and it's giving you a realistic view on personal safety and how you can implement that in your life and also the people around you to stay safer, create a safer environment for you, your family, and the people you love and care for. So, you know, I have to give big credit to Julie for that because I know how much hard work she put into that. And I think it's awesome because it's a woman leading it. It's you know, it does that handheld step-by-step process that um encourages you to go through it and you know take a lot of empowerment from it.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

I want to do it now. Oh, well, we we shall send you over the information, send you over a link. You can do that. We'd love to hear your feedback.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 49:32

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

I think it's worth just saying as well that we've discussed a lot of really important um issues on this particular episode. Uh, not that the other episodes aren't important, but some things that people might find um has affected them emotionally. If you'd like to reach out to somebody, then do so. Whether it be Julian Dean, whether it be myself and Julie, a friend, somebody else, it's always good to talk these things through. So if you haven't been affected by any of the issues that we've talked about today, then do reach out to somebody um to talk to them. So I think that's it for this week, then. We've it's actually our 50th episode, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Congratulations. Yeah, brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

That's a big achievement.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

It is. We're really proud of it, and um we can't think of two better people to have shared it with. You know that we love the stuff that you guys do, so thank you.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

Oh likewise, thank you both.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Okay, so just to sign off, then it's been coaches James and Julia Fabulous Beyond 40. Reminding you to stay strong and stay fabulous. We will speak to you next time. Take care.