SPEAKER_01 0:13

Hello and welcome back to Empower Your Menopause, a podcast for all things around the menopause transition from peri to postmenopause. I'm Coach James, and as usual, with me I have my amazing coaching partner, Julie Medete, and today we're going to dive into a topic that many women in midlife struggle with but often don't talk about, and that's emotional eating. So whether it's stress or boredom or just that irresistible call of the cookie or biscuit jar, emotional eating can feel like a frustrating, never-ending cycle, especially at a time of life when our bodies don't react to foods and particular treats like they might have done when we were younger. So in this episode, we're going to explore why emotional eating happens during menopause. What are the kind of triggers for it, biologically, emotionally, what's actually making this happen? And then we'll talk about some practical strategies to try and regain some control maybe over the emotional eating. And of course, we're going to do it all without judgment as ever because let's face it, we've all been there. I'm not sure about you, Julie, but I reach for the cookie jar just as much as the next person. Um, yeah. I I I suppose the thing to talk about first here is to actually just add a little bit of normality to this. Because you know, emotional eating is more likely to happen during menopause anyway, because of some of those hormonal changes that take place. So, you know, it is really often not just about you or where your thought process is or where your emotions are at this particular time, but sometimes due to the physicality of the changes that are taking place. So you're really not imagining it, and it's not all about a lack of willpower either. So I suppose, really, then let's start off by Julie. I wonder if you could just explain to people something about the hormonal shifts and why emotional eating is actually such a challenge at this time of life for many of the people that we see in Fabulous Beyond 40.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Sure. And and this is this is a really normal thing. Um, I don't think we can emphasize that enough because a lot of times we feel like, oh, everybody else has got it under control. Why can't I? And the truth is, no, they don't. No, they don't, because I can attest to that personally. And as James said, you know, we're human too. And I've been through this, this I'm on the other side now, I'm in postmenopause, but I still have those days where it's like, I must eat the thing. So our our home hormones are shifting, so estrogen is fluctuating all over the place, especially in paramenopause. Um, and we have more stress, so cortisol levels are rising, and these things can cause us to have more cravings and just more emotional sensitivity because they have they influence our moods greatly. And as kids, you know, we're taught that that food has power, right? If we fall down and skin our knee, and uh mom gives us a cookie to make us feel better, and our brains already know that cookies make us feel better. So there's that emotional connection in our subconscious mind as well. So when you think about all of the things that you have going on at this phase of life, maybe your kids are in their teens and that's it can be a difficult period. Maybe your kids are grown and you have grandkids. It really depends on that. But you've got family to think about, you've got work to think about, you've got your household, your community, all the other activities and hobbies you want to be doing, friends, and possibly caring for aging parents who might not be doing as well as others. So all of these things cause a lot of stress, and stress is a big factor when it comes to emotional eating. So it's it's a very common coping mechanism, and I can explain why, like from a biological perspective, a little bit later, but know that it is okay, and there's nothing wrong with you if you do experience emotional eating from time to time.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah. I remember some time ago I had a client, Sarah, she was about late 40s at the time, busy professional, mother of kids. You know, she was doing all the usual stuff, juggling work, deadlines, all those things you just manage, managing the schedules for the kids, taking care of aging parents, trying to be a good partner to her other half. And she often found herself reaching for snacks late at night. And it wasn't because she was hungry, but it was probably the only point in her day when she actually had time to herself for just a few minutes. And what she'd do is, just as a reaction, she'd reached for the cookie jar and a cup of tea, and before she knew it, half the packet had gone, and that led to her feeling really frustrated, guilty, out of control, all that good stuff. So we started working together, and she admitted that she really didn't know a lot of the time where her feelings lay around this and around food in general. And we came to the conclusion that she was just stressed and overwhelmed. So we worked on looking at some of the triggers for that happening, you know, that end-of-the-day exhaustion, the pressure of trying to get everything done right, and the need for some kind of comfort. And then when when we'd worked through that, we talked about small manageable changes, which is what we always talk about, right? To our clients, Julie, when it comes to these kind of things. Your first question I'm hungry or do I need something else? And she started keeping a journal on that because I always think that's a really good way to do it. If you try remembering these things, quite often you're two, three, four days down the road, it's gone, right? So if you've if you've journaled about it, then you can reflect back and and and take a look at it. And we also created this idea of a self-care menu so she could start picking up on triggers and start looking at other things she could turn to if she needed to, so things that weren't actually food related, because we worked out the cookies were kind of like the symptom, but they weren't the actual underlying cause of things, it was just there was something there that she could could grab, and then we started trying to replace that idea of grabbing food late at night with something that was a little bit more personal and non-food related, so either taking a hot bath, you know, watching a bit of TV, five-minute body scan, all those kind of things. And you know, we didn't work on this perfectly. There's still times, I'm sure today when Sarah still turns to the cookie jar occasionally, but she did so more with compassion rather than feeling guilty about it. There's nothing worse than looking over the cookie jar and diving in and sort of like furtively looking around to make sure that nobody else is looking around. But once she found felt that she was more in control and she had some better coping strategies and worked out what the underlying emotion was, she actually felt more in control. And I mean, the biggest win of all those was that she didn't feel as though she needed the biscuits, it was just a moment to herself that she needed more than anything else. Once we start giving her moments to herself in other areas, then things kind of came together a bit. So that's a really nice, I think, personal example. But why don't we try and talk about some of the underlying things behind this then so we can give listeners the chance to understand a little bit more about emotional eating and why it might happen and what triggers they can look for in themselves to recognize it? So I guess my first question for you, Julie, is how do you know if you're eating because you're emotional, or how do you know if you're eating because it's physical? What is the difference between physical hunger and emotional hunger for you?

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Yeah, it's that's a great question because I think it's something that a lot of us have lost touch with because we are so ingrained with we have to have snacks, we get we don't want to get hungry as if hunger's an emergency. So we don't really remember what it's like to feel hungry and that it's actually okay to feel hungry. It's not an emergency. There's food available everywhere you turn. So being able to get hungry is actually good for your body's balance. And when you feel those hunger pangs, it's in your stomach, which by the way sits just under your rib cage. It's not down lower in your belly. If you start to get rumbling down there, it might be gas or something else. So when where and but I mean, I I we joke about this, but I've talked to several people who don't really understand the difference, like never thought about where their stomach is physically located. So a lot of times, especially this time of life, our belly gets bloated and and there's a lot of stuff going on down there. So we may think that that kind of noise and and movement is it indicates hunger. But but true physical hunger starts feeling a like a little bit of emptiness and it builds over time. Sometimes you can drink a glass of water, it goes away for a little while and then maybe comes back. But when you're actually physically hungry, pretty much any food will satisfy your hunger. So it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily matter. And I always give myself the apple test. If an apple would satisfy me at that moment in time, then I'm probably physically hungry. If a if an apple isn't something that my that I think I want, then it might be something else. And that would be emotional hunger. So emotional hunger is more driven by feelings rather than some kind of specific physical requirement. And it comes on, not only does it come on suddenly, but it's very specific. So when you find yourself hungry for a very specific food, that is likely tied to some kind of emotion. And it's it's that emotion that's asking you for soothing. And a lot of times we stuff down our feelings that may be unpleasant by stuffing food in instead of allowing ourselves to sit with that discomfort for a little bit. And a lot of times when we eat emotionally, we still don't feel satisfied. Now, some of that can be because those emotions are still there and they're unattended to. And sometimes it can be because of our food choices, because we haven't actually put any nutrition into our body when we eat the kinds of things we tend to want when we're emotionally hungry. So it really depends on what is triggering that and how you feel afterwards. If you've eaten for physical hunger, you usually feel pretty good, you feel satisfied. But when you've eaten for emotional hunger, you might feel guilty or ashamed instead.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Yeah. I suppose when we talk about the triggers as well, it's important to say that it's easy to get involved in this idea that the emotions around emotional eating always have to be negative ones. Yes, stress, boredom, sadness, loneliness, all those things we've talked about. But you even get emotional eating at things like celebrations as well. You know, you're at a birthday and there's a big piece of birthday cake there, you know, and we tuck into it because we're feeling emotional about the thing, and we associate those good feelings with with cake as well as sort of like the cookie jar that our mum gives us, or the cookie from the cookie jar that our mum gives us when we when we fall over. So I think it's important to recognise as well that this these are not always embroiled, or emotional eating is not always embroiled in negativity or or negative emotions. One of the things that I find, and I'm not sure whether you agree or not, is that that reward after emotional eating or after uh about of it is often short-lived. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah, it it is short-lived because we haven't satisfied our true need. And I I just want to I just want to explain a little bit about the physiology of emotional eating, because we don't eat because there's something wrong with us, because we lack willpower, because we're weak. Um, we're we're doing we're trying to solve a problem. And we reach for food because we have learned, as I said in the cookie example, when you skinned your knee as a child, we've learned that food can solve our problems because of our society, the way we're raised, where the commercials were bombarded with. But there is actually a network of nerves that go behind our ear and behind our jaw called the trigeminal nerve. And and that nerve stimulates dopamine production in our body. So, so it, you know, when animals are stressed, they chew on things. When babies are stressed, they put things in their mouths. We don't really get over that as adults. And so the process of chewing actually stimulates that trigeminal nerve and it produces those feel-good chemicals, neurochemicals and hormones in our body. So it does create that temporary stress relief. So we learn that habit because we have the emotion or the stress, and that leads us to eating for comfort. We might get some relief, and then we have guilt or frustration because we haven't satisfied the emotional need, and then that gets itself into a kind of a vicious cycle, and it it can become it can become very frustrating because it can feel like it's difficult to break out of. But uh, the good news is it's it can be done.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Before we go on to the ways that it can be done, then because we like to follow a format here, don't we? Pull things apart a little bit, talk about it, and then talk about some of the ways that people can address the issues. So I just want to delve a little bit more into something that we touched on earlier about why it's actually harder in midlife when it comes to emotional eating. And once again, I think important to just keep hammering up home this idea of just normalizing this idea of emotional eating. It does happen, and it happens even more so at this time because midlife and all the things that can happen during this period of time will amplify any emotional eating that we have for various biological, psychological, and lifestyle reasons. So you talked before about those hormonal shifts that intensify cravings. We talked about estrogen decline, particularly during perimenopause, when it's fluctuating and then declining during uh menopause or postmenopause, and estrogen plays a role in serotonin production as well. That's a feel-good neurotransmitter. So when we've got lower levels of estrogen, we often find that we have those mood dips that are associated with the menopause transition, and that can drive emotional eating. We've got the cortisol as well, stress levels. We talk about this all the time, don't we? Stress being the mortal enemy of women in perimenopause and the menopause transition. That often increases during midlife. Uh, there's a concept of as oestrogen declines, the other place estrogen tends to come from when it stops coming from the ovaries is from your adrenal glands. If you're super stressed, then you're not producing estrogen, cortisol spikes, cortisol tends to drive cravings. You've got this whole thing going on. Then one thing we didn't touch on before is also, of course, the fact that we become more insulin, insulin resistant as we get older, which can also emphasize cravings and and our want for sweet, sugary type type snacks as well. So you've got all that going on. You have got this idea of being in the sandwich generation where you're you're you're the meat in a sandwich between your kids and your parents, somewhat, aren't you? That drives all kinds of stresses going on. I know in our house old at the moment, both my wife and I have got parents who are getting older, need more care from us. Um, our kids, twin daughters, 14, hyperhormonal at the moment. Laura's bang smack in the middle of this of this whole period as well. So, you know, there's a there's a heck of a lot going on for women at this time of life. Um, and then of course, you know, when you've got kids that are a bit older, you've got all kinds of other life transitions that take place. Yeah, your kids might be leaving home, you might suddenly become an empty nester. You do you worry more about them when they start going on a you know, a backpacking journey around the world and you and you can't see them because they're off dancing to the full moon on a beach in in Thailand. You've got all those stresses, you've got career shifts, relationships change and mature at this time of life. So there's lots of things going on there from an emotional point of view as well. And then, of course, our good old friend sleep. You know, we know that sleep is harder during the menopause transition. You've got night swatch, you've got insomnia, you've got restless sleep, all that kind of stuff leads to fatigue. Fatigue tends to lower our willpower when it comes to things like uh whether we want to eat or not, and what we want to eat, but also physically hormones as well, things like grayling, your hunger hormone, and leptin, the one that makes you feel full. So, all those kind of imbalances there that come from the sleep issue can also lead to cravings for sugary or high-carb foods. And then we talked before about the decades of conditioning, the idea, mum gives us a gives us a cookie, and you know, we need to face facts really, don't we? That you get to an age when you're less resilient when you're a kid, when you're younger and full of the joys of youth, you could bounce around at 20. I know you know my my girls go through all kinds of sort of like sweets, cookies, as well as the healthy food that we give them, but they just burn it off in seconds, right? So, you know, we've got all those changes as well. So I think we've probably tapped that off now, sort of like some of the reasons why this happened and understanding it, and actually being kind to ourselves when we talk about it, because it is a challenge that is it's not just a lack of willpower, there's lots of other things going on as well. So let's talk then, Julie, about how people can break the cycle. I wonder what thoughts you've got here about a couple of tips and tricks that people could start to use to think about when it comes to emotional eating and whether they are emotionally eating or not, and uh what we can do about it, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Sure. Well, and I I can share some things that worked for me because this was a real battle for me for a long time. Um, one of the things I find most helpful for not only myself, but also clients is the idea of being more mindful. So tuning in with our body before we go for the food, think about what is it I'm feeling right now? What is it that I really need? You can ask yourself that question. And this isn't going to be a one and done kind of thing. This is a this is a skill that takes a lot of practice because a lot of times, as I said before, it's difficult for us to tune in and actually express what we're feeling at the time or recognize what it is. So checking in whether you're truly hungry or if there's something else going on, even putting your hand over your stomach and asking it, Am I hungry? Do you want food right now? I know that may sound a little weird, but it actually will help you pay more attention to what's going on in your body. And then when you do decide to eat something, maybe keep a little bit of a journal to see what's going on and what is it that I was craving and what did I eat. If you decide to eat, make it a conscious choice and then give yourself permission and eat it slowly and mindfully. That's the hardest part. A lot of times we just shovel it in and don't even remember having finished it. So if you sit down and actually eat and taste it and chew it and pay attention to the the color, the smell, the texture, the taste, it you'll feel a lot more satisfied and often with less of whatever it is by the time you've finished. I think, I think mindfulness is a is a huge skill that that we could all do a little better, really.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

100%.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Yeah. And and then, you know, we don't have to get rid of all our favorite foods. I I think that is a big mistake. People say, I just absolutely can't have it. If it's something that you absolutely can't control yourself around, but you still but you hate the idea of giving it up, maybe only have it when you go out where the portions are controlled. And you can have it in a situation where you're feeling a little bit less emotional. And and because as soon as we forbid something, that's all we can focus on, because our subconscious mind does not recognize a negative. So if you say, I don't want this, all your brain is hearing is I want this, I want this.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Must not eat the cookie cookie, must eat the cookie.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's that little gr the little gremlin in there that's that's doing it. So, so just recognize that food isn't the enemy and food doesn't have power over you. You get to choose. So when you decide to take some steps forward, just take small steps. Don't expect yourself to to get this all perfect because it never is. I still indulge in my comfort foods from time to time, as I'm sure do you. And you know, give yourself that space to do it, but make it a a more conscious decision and and just work at this one step at a time. I think that's the biggest, the biggest thing you can do is small, small changes.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

And then I suppose going back to Sarah, the lady I was talking about before, you're finding alternatives to food for comfort. So can you think of something else that might work? Is it do you actually just need some time to yourself? Do you need a few minutes to yourself rather than rather than some food? So, could you do some journaling or go for a walk or maybe some deep breathing, have a chat with a friend, something along those ideas, and just ask yourself that question again. You know, are you hungry? And if I'm not really hungry, do I need to do something else to fill this gap? Um, and then I also think the environment is really important. You make it to have foods that you think don't actually serve you within your immediate environment, the more challenging it can be, right? I remember working through this with another client once, and she had that typical thing: three o'clock in the afternoon in the office, somebody would bring out the biscuits with their three o'clock cup of tea, right? And it was often her who was bringing the biscuits out because the drawer was just sort of a desk away from her. It was easy to reach for. Once she moved the biscuits over to the other side of the office and put a fruit bowl between her and and and and and the snack drawer, she more often than not herself grabbed for some fruit at that time rather than grabbing for something that was either sweet or sugary or or really, really carb heavy. So I think thinking about ways that you can change your environment is another good way to actually practically do something about this. And then really some planning. You know, I'm a great fan of a guy called Mark Hyman. Uh he's got a podcast as well, health guru over in the in the US. He doesn't go anywhere without his little sort of like pack of snacks with him, you know, a couple of sort of like things of nuts that he takes and things like that. So he's always got something close by that he can pull on that is not sweet, sugary, carb carb carb loaded, and then thinking about things like what you're gonna do with it as a social event, how's your work week coming up? Is it stressful or not? Um, and thinking about actually just making sure that you're physically you physically feel as though you've had enough to eat as well. I think all those things are really really important. So, Julie, how can you know there is a mindset element here as well. So, how can listeners reframe the idea of emotional eating? We've talked a lot about trying to say that you know it's okay to do this, but I wonder if you could just delve into that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Sure. I think I think one of the one of the greatest things you can do for yourself is get curious. Start looking at the the food choices you're making, when those cravings may strike, how you're feeling before, during, and after eating those particular foods, and and be curious about what it what was I feeling, where did that come from? How what connection do I have to this particular food? Because most of the time there's a story there, somewhere in the back of our mind. And then just be compassionate. You know, most of what we do on a daily basis is driven by our subconscious mind, and we've had how many years of life to establish those habits and build them into our lifestyle, so it's not going to resolve overnight. So we want to be compassionate, exercise some self-compassion instead of letting that inner bully start beating us to death. It's it's really important to think of the way how would you respond to a good friend who needed some support here? Because the truth is, you are your best friend, and we need to start treating ourselves that way. So get it's a it's an easier way to get rid of the guilt that's associated with emotional eating and the judgment that goes along with that. And curiosity is an amazing thing because we can learn a lot from it. It opens our minds and takes away that sort of negativity.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah, good stuff. Okay, let's start to close things up then with a bit of recapping. So I guess we've talked about a lot of the underlying reasons for why this might be happening. Emotionally, it's common, it's understandable, but it is changeable with some awareness and small steps. So hopefully, people have got some strategies there to actually think about why if and why they might be emotional eating and and what they can do about it. You know, and as we've said many, many times before, you don't have to cure an inverted commas yourself of anything in in one felt swoop. These are all challenges, and like any challenge in life, one step at step at a time is the way to go about it, right? So looking at things. So I think I'd invite listeners to think if you are emotionally eating, what strategy could you look at this week? Would you want to investigate your triggers? Would you want to think about mindful eating? Are you going to devise that self-care menu that we talked about? Or are you just going to observe your habits and do a little bit of journaling around it and see where that gets you? Um, I suppose the key thing is that you're not defined by your relationship with food. Yeah. Every step you take towards breaking the cycle is a one towards a healthier, happier you. Um so, a couple of messages then before we go wrapping emotional eating up. Next week, we've got uh another guest coming your way. We've got Laura Watts, amazing uh ultramarathon runner from the UK. Um, she combines her passion with a career as a lead cabin crew for multinational airlines. So it's really, really hard for her to fit herself care in around that. But she's going to come and talk to us about that. So, more about what she did to feel fabulous beyond 40 rather than her her her emotional or um time of life, but more sort of like about the positivity that she's brought to herself at this time of life, which I think is a really, really nice message. And then, of course, Julie, we have our November offer to listeners as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

We do. We have a very exciting opportunity for you. So, this this month, November, we're offering 40 free coaching sessions to women like you to help you tackle a lot of these menopause challenges head on. And it whether it's emotional eating, getting enough restful sleep, or any other symptom you may be experiencing. These sessions are going to be very tailored to your specific needs and they are completely free. Um, it only costs you 45 minutes of your time. But the spots are filling up, so I highly recommend that you head to our website and or click the link in the show notes to claim your spot. You can book with either one of us. Um, we would love to work together with you, or you can go to freecall.fabulousbeyond40.com in case you can't see the show notes and uh book your appointment today because we would love to work together with you to help you feel fabulous every step of the way.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Amazing. So thanks for that, Julie. We've been Coach James and Coach Julie, just reminding you to stress stay strong and stay fabulous. We'll see you next time. Take care.