SPEAKER_01 0:12

Welcome back to Empower Your Menopause. I'm not sure what episode we're on. I think this might be nine or ten now. I've done quite a few of them. It's coaches Julie Madesty and James Ellis here from Team Fabers Beyond 40. Today we're just going to tackle a topic that's got many of us tossing and turning, or maybe even just staring at the ceiling and counting sheep. Yes, we're going to talk about sleep during menopause. Excuse me. Now if you're still listening, you've probably tried every trick in the book to get a good night's sleep, only to find yourself wide awake at 3am, wondering why nothing seems to work at this time of life. Well, here's a bit of a spoiler it's not just in your head. Today we're going to talk about some tips and techniques that you can do to find out what's going on and how you can reclaim your peaceful night. Now we know it's tough, menopause enough challenges at us anyway, or at you anyway, not I say us as a collective we sometimes, but I do mean at you obviously as women. But don't worry, at the end of the episode, you have some fresh strategies and practical tips to help you drift off and stay asleep. So grab a herbal tea, get comfy, and let's dive in. So first of all, before we go into any stats or anything like that, Julie, you're the woman part of this coaching partnership. You're the woman who's been through menopause in the past. Why don't you tell us a little bit about how it's been for you in the past? What's your sleep feeling like? What challenges did you find?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yeah, that sleep has been a big one for me. I had a very busy career. I was uh recently moved to a new country when I s went into the throes of menopause and menopause symptoms, and my sleep was all over the place. I would find myself awake when I didn't want to be, tired and dozing off when I didn't want to be. And when I finally got to lie down at night and go to bed, the hot flushes and all of the different stressors, the as I say, the squirrels were or the hamsters were running on the wheel through my head all night long. Um so I so I remember those those struggles very well. At the time I didn't have the tools to understand what was going on in my body, so I didn't have anybody to coach me on some sleep strategies, but I did find a few things that worked for me, and we can talk more about those as the episode goes on. Um but even today I do find that even though I'm past the the main menopausal symptoms, I do still struggle a bit with my sleep, um, getting enough, and I know it is critically important, so we need to talk about that, the whys and wherefores.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Yeah, uh it's interesting that even I mean, myself, I'm a terrible sleeper. I try my best, but I'm very good at falling asleep anywhere. I can fall asleep at the drop of a hat if I need to. I'm very, very bad at actually maintaining long periods of sleep. I don't know if it's genetic or what it is. My mum's exactly the same. I've talked about my mum before, Audrey. She is Margaret Thatcher-esque in the lack of sleep that she will have like four hours a night is is mum's sort of like maximum. And you know, we aren't alone in that. I was just looking at some stats. 36% of UK adults, and I imagine it's similar in America, struggle to get to sleep on a weekly basis. One in five of us have trouble actually falling asleep. Nearly half of the UK has trouble falling asleep at least once a month, and of course, then that's just general population stuff. Then we've got the kickers as well. Of course, women have more trouble falling asleep or report to have more trouble falling asleep at night than men. And also the people in this key age group, 45 to 54, right across the menopause transition, they struggle more than anyone else when it comes to falling asleep. And two-thirds of people in that age group, that's 70% of 45 to 54 year olds, whether men or women, struggle to fall asleep. So no wonder it's a challenge. And of course, there are all kinds of issues that come from not sleeping. It's one of those things, isn't it, that we kind of know we should be doing more of it, but we tend to not be able to a lot. But just reel off a couple of things that are challenges: heart disease, obesity, psychiatric conditions, impaired cognition, autoimmune diseases, digestive disorders, immune function are all challenged or have links to poor sleep and sleep disturbances. The interesting thing there, of course, is that you look at that list and you look at things like heart disease, one, impaired cognition is another, adding on weight is another, increased chance of autoimmune diseases, increased chance of disorder digestive disorders, and increased chance of immune dysfunction are all also potential symptoms of the menopause transition. So once again, we're looking at a subject here where you can layer some symptoms or some risk factors on top of those that already come with the uh with the menopause transition. So, Julia, I wonder if you could talk to us a little bit about the hormonal roller coaster and what's going on here for women at this stage in life that makes it particularly difficult for them.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Sure. And it starts in peramenopause, and I think one of the challenges is that a lot of women don't even understand that they are in peramenopause. Um, I just saw a study that showed one in three women are misdiagnosed by their doctors with health conditions that are actually not the health conditions they're being diagnosed with, but they are menopause or peramenopause uh symptoms. But doctors just don't know. So we think that it's a natural part of aging, that these are just the things that happen to us. As we go through paramenopause and our ovaries are starting to produce less estrogen, we get these massive spikes in our estrogen production and then these massive drops in our estrogen production. So it's all over the place. And it can cause a lot of these symptoms, like the hot flushes, like anxiety, like the cognitive impairment. And so when we take those those symptoms and that roller coaster that can be happening throughout our sleep cycle at night, even on a on a hourly t basis, on a you know, we don't really know the timing because it varies by person. And progesterone, which is supposed to help us relax and be calm, um, that tends to be bouncing all over the place as well. So a lot of times estrogen and progesterone are swapped in in where they need to be in our cycle, and then when you add elevated cortisol from high stress, that keeps us awake when we are meant to be asleep. Cortisol elevate elevated cortisol is good in the morning because it helps us get up, it helps us get going, but at night it it does the opposite, right? It keeps us in that stress loop. And when you've got that monkey mind going on, and then you've got all these other fluctuations, and what do we tend to do at night? We can't sleep, we play on our phones, we watch TV, that leads to snacking, which can interfere with our sleep cycle as well. Um interfere the blue light, interferes with our melatonin production, and so we have this whole topsy-turvy, convoluted mixture of hormones that aren't where they need to be when they need to be there.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Um there's a real vicious circle going on here, really, isn't it? Because you've got those fluctuations in estrogen and progesterone, which are causing some of the sleepless nights, you've got the anxiety that's layered in as well, and then, of course, a result of all that is an increase in things like night sweats and um anxiety during sleeping hours and things like that, which actually just exacerbate the problem. Then you've got less sleep or less good quality sleep, and of course, then that just adds another layer in again. So, once again, you've got this cycle of things where one thing is feeding into another, and you just get this increasing level of challenge that it's harder and harder for people to come up with. And of course, the obvious thing that most people would say to you is, Well, excuse me, if you're not getting enough sleep, just go to bed earlier.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

How easy is that yeah, right, sure, no problem. Uh, because our our schedules aren't jam-packed, we don't have a lot of stressors going on, we don't have things you know. One of one of the best gifts one of my one of the ladies I worked with gave to herself was stopping watching the news at night. Talk about stress. Um, but yeah, it we to we tend to reach for the wrong things when we're when we're feeling this displacement, this disjointedness. And it and it it does become that vicious circle. I think that taking it one step at a time, no going to bed earlier isn't necessarily the best thing you can do. Obviously, if you learn how to relax when you go to bed earlier, then sure, that can be really helpful. But there are lots of other things that we can do before we start adjusting our bedtime routine. Like shutting screens down a little bit earlier, which I know panics a lot of people. Um I hear from many, many women that it it's the only time they get to themselves when they're at night, so they love to lose themselves in a game on their phone or in some favorite show on um whatever channel they're watching. I don't have a TV, so I don't even know what's on anymore. Or streaming. Um and and I appreciate that, but finding other ways to unwind that are healthier and more supportive of good sleep um can be a lot more beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah. Why don't we start digging into some things that we can do then? Because you mentioned blue light there, and that is one of my key things, and I think is a key challenge to everybody, but it falls for me into this area of what we can do with our environment, and quite often when it comes to coaching or helping three people through any challenge that they might have, sometimes it's a subtle change in the environment or the environmental factors that can actually um produce some of the best results, so it doesn't necessarily have to be all this fancy other stuff, like I'm sure we'll talk dig into things like nutrition and techniques and sleep patterns and things like that, but sometimes just changing the environment can be enough. And the classic one is you know, if you want to stop snacking on chocolate, put the fruit bowl between yourself and the chocolate rather than having the fruit bowl on the other side of the chocolate. So that's the kind of thing we're talking about. Let's talk then about environment. So, how would you suggest people set up their bedroom for success? What should it what should it look like? Because that is the sanctuary, isn't it? That is what what we should be trying to preserve, because that is where we're trying to get get the sleep. So so what does that look like for you then?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Um, first and foremost for me, and I know this is probably a really b uh point of contention for some people, is that the bedroom should only be used for sleep and sex, not for working, not for watching TV, not for snacking, not for whatever other activities we tend to do in our in our bedrooms. So making sure that things are removed to make it a nice peaceful sanctuary so that we feel relaxed when we're in there. And of course that may require some negotiation. If you have a spouse who insists on watching TV in bed, that's a whole other that's a whole other issue. But the bedroom should be neat and tidy. It should be calm and the temperature should be cool. Now, famous last words, because here I live in Italy, we don't have air conditioning, and our bedroom gets very, very hot in the summertime. But we've arranged a number of fans and other methods to keep ourselves as as cool as we possibly can. So there are there's always an option. But a tidy space is a calm space, and uh keeping like we have uh blackout drapes because both of us are light sleepers, so we have blackout drapes on the on the um door wall. And um if if you like things like essential oils or other fragrances, lavender oil is a very calming um essential oil, so simple light sense, none of these plug-in perfumey things that are that are chemically produced, but um things things that things that bring a sense of calm to you. So some people are more sensitive to smells, some people are more sensitive to to um touch, so soft fabrics, things that are very comfortable, really good quality bedding makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, the the light for me is a particularly interesting one. I am very much old school, probably going back somewhere to my ancestors who were cavemen or whatever. Natural light has the biggest effect on my sleep personally. So in summer, I I live much further north than you do. I'm up here in Leeds in the U in the UK. Obviously, our days are quite long. In the summer it's getting light at 4 am. And as soon as that first crack of light comes in through the shutters, I am snapped awake. That that that's it. So I think blackout curtains or blackout drapes, as you would call them in America, really, really super important to be helping regulate that natural rhythm as much as possible. Um obviously you talked a lot about reducing screen times. What's your take on these uh blue light blocking glasses? Do they get the thumbs up or or not for you?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

I think it's a good intermittent step. Um, and certainly they help to a certain degree if you get good quality ones. There are a lot of fakes out there on the market, so you think you're getting something that maybe you aren't. Um, and I've been caught up by that myself, so I can say that with full disclosure. Um, but they don't block all of the blue light from from our devices. And by the way, blue light isn't a bad thing when you get it naturally from the sun, it's really helpful for for your brain um and for your eyes, but the blue light we get from our screens is is not. So um my suggestion is have a nice little sticky note on your screens. I have my phone set to shut off automatically every night during the week because I know I lack the discipline to do it myself. So I find that having it done for me makes things a lot easier. And I do use my phone as an alarm clock, as many people do. So it stays off until the alarm until it turns back on to run the alarm in the morning. Um and that way I'm not tempted at night, because I know a lot of people will roll wake up in the night, they'll roll over, they'll grab their phone first thing, which again stimulates your brain and wakes you back up. So I don't think in the filters, like Flux is a good one for your computer screen, but those filters also don't block out a hundred percent. They help, but they're not the the be they don't give you free uh free rain to stay on your screens um after after we recommend that you shut them down.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because it's uh for me, it's not just the blue light that emits from phones that is a challenge. I think there's also something going on there with the electromagnetic radiation that comes off a phone as well. I um I wake up 10-20 seconds before my alarm goes off. Every single day. It's almost as there's something emitting from the phone that is like a precursor to the alarm. Something's going on as it's readying itself to tell me that it's time to get up. And I'm already awake. I know I know I as soon as I I open my eyes and I turn the thing on, and I can see it's like a minute to whatever my alarm is is is set for.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Well, and to that end, and I will say, my dog is very sensitive to EMF. And and and if I have for some reason, if I've turned my phone back on after it's shut off, maybe I need to check a message or check the weather or whatever. Um if I leave it on, even if I put it into airplane mode to go to sleep, the dog will not lay by the nightstand. But when the phone is shut off, he will sleep there.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Right, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Okay, so I think in a in a while we're gonna talk a little bit about how to actually plan a routine. But before we delve into that a little bit, why don't we talk a little bit about things that can help from a nutritional perspective when it comes to sleep? What are the foods that can help us at this time of night or other nutrients? So I'm thinking things like you know, magnesium-rich foods, herbal teas are always good, cutting out caffeine, that kind of thing. W what are your views on on foods and supplements that can help with sleep?

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Um, first and foremost, I would say magnesium. Either magnesium-rich foods like nuts and seeds, um some light dairy, um, I think are are good sources of magnesium, although I'm not an advocate of eating right before bed. For some people that may work, but we when we're resting, we want our body to be repairing and restoring and storing memories and burning fat and um producing hormones and doing all of the other things it needs to do. So making it digest food while we're trying to sleep takes away the energy it needs to do those other important functions. Um however, those foods that are higher in magnesium I think would be in in very small amounts would be helpful. And a magnesium supplement, most of us are deficient in magnesium. The last study I read said that um it magnesium is responsible for more than 300 different enzyme functions in our body. So it's a really important nutrient, and our soils are lacking in it because of monocropping and all of the overproduction. So it I while we don't we don't recommend supplements as a replacement for healthy foods, that would be probably one supplement that I would recommend for bedtime. And it's best taken at nighttime on an empty stomach because it needs an acid environment to properly absorb into your body.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah. Absolutely. When I when I was talking about foods as a potential sleep aid, I wasn't really thinking about a huge pile of uh uh you know salmon with but you've got omega-3s, which are great for for inducing sleep, uh, but obviously you don't want to have too much because you don't want to digest too much, so like you know, just a couple hundred calories maybe and as easily digestible as possible because I 100% agree you do not want to be digesting or carrying out some real heavy digestion on food when you're going to sleep. I mean, interestingly, you know, that may be one of the reasons why everybody says that cheese causes nightmares. You know, people traditionally would have cheese as a supper just before they go to bed. They go to bed, they're trying to process this really heavy dairy with fat and protein in it, and therefore that is potentially keeping them awake. Then the other ones, of course, are the trip tryptophan-rich foods that I I quite like. Tryptophan is a um an amino acid, an essential amino acid that is crucial for producing a hormone called serotonin, which is one of our sleep hormones. Um Turkey has that, which is one of the reasons why maybe eating Turkey at Christmas or Thanksgiving makes us fall asleep in the afternoon. But also there's a bit of cherry juice, which I really like as a supplement. Um the brand that I choose to buy is one called Cherry Active. It uses uh a form of cherry called Montmorency cherry. It's just a uh it's like a cordial, so really good pure dilution, dilute it with water and have that before before bed. Really, really good. Sleep aid, rather than trying to chow down on a load of deli meat just before you go, before you go to sleep, which we definitely wouldn't recommend doing definitely not.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

And one of one of the other interesting things is that we talk about foods that are rich in magnesium, zinc, and iron, and one of the one of the foods that's rich in those things is really high quality dark chocolate. Unfortunately, it also contains some caffeine, and depending on what you buy, it can contain some sugars. So it's not necessarily the the good bedtime sort of snack, but occasionally a little square earlier in the evening may may help start that that routine again, quality over quantity.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna drag us into an area that probably neither of us really want to go into because we talked about a lot on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and we had our guest Holly Walsh on. But let's talk about hydration and alcohol then and what kind of effect they have. I find with even if you're having things like herbal teas, good. Water during the day, good water intake, and things like that. Loading that earlier in the day rather than later in the day is always helpful because full bladder usually means that that full bladder has got to empty at some point, and the last thing you want is to be woken up by need to pee because then that's just going to disturb sleep. So I would always err on hydration outside of alcohol earlier in the day, maybe trying to get maybe 75% of it in before say six o'clock in an evening. But what are your thoughts on our old friend alcohol then? That the subject that we touch on a lot, but is probably the one that causes the most grief when we start talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

It does, and I can say I can speak from experience there. Um again, I live in Italy, so wine, you know, it's it's part of the culture. But it really doesn't play nicely with sleep, whether you're in menopause or not, but especially when you're in menopause. And it can be a trigger for hot flushes. Um it's one of the better known ones. So what what it does, we all think alcohol helps me relax, and it may help you kind of zone out a little bit. But first of all, our bodies will prioritize detoxifying alcohol because it looks at it as a as a kind of poison almost as a toxin in our body before it starts to look at digesting uh the food that we're eating. So that already doesn't help. If we're having wine with dinner or a glass of wine after dinner, um we're we're interfering with our digestion. Then alcohol also it keeps us from getting into that deep sleep that we need that is so restorative, and we do need a certain amount of that during the night in order to really properly function and repair and and restore. So we have different sleep phases that we go through throughout the s the nightly sleep cycle, and we repeat those phases a couple of times during the night, um, in different different lengths. So we've got light sleep and then we've got rem sleep, whereas is where we dream, and um and then we've got deep sleep, which is where we store our memories and we repair and and um what do I want to say? Revive kind of rebuild. Um in that and so that's really important, and alcohol will interfere with that happening. So we may get to sleep faster, but we're not going to get into the sleep cycles we need, and we're not going to get the quality of sleep that we need. And certainly if we have more than our share the next day, we all know that doesn't feel very nice. So then we feel sleepy the next day because we haven't slept well, and maybe a little bit of a headache to go with it. Because it's also very deh dehydrating.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? Because the how the alcohol debate, taking a side, you know, some people just simply like to have a drink occasionally. Um not only does it challenge you when it comes to sleep, and all the studies seem to show helps you get into sleep, gives you worse sleep further down. That's those those sleep cycles. Um, but obviously, empty calories when we when we when we're drinking, and then poor sleep, we know is a driver of weight gain, and so once again, I think it's just worth saying to people that you it's all alcohol is an absolutely personal choice. We're just giving you the facts that may be something to think about. One of those things to think about is it's gonna give you bad sleep, and bad sleep can drive weight gain. Alcohol on its own can cause weight again as well. So, if weight again is one of the things that you're challenged by, alcohol is certainly not your not your friend. So, hopefully that was preachy enough for for you all.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

But let's you know, I I was just gonna say I still have my Friday evening aperativo, but we have a glass of something at around six o'clock in the evening before dinner, and that's it. That's it for the whole night. And then we'll have dinner, and so there's plenty of time. We walk the dog in the evening, there's plenty of time to burn that off. So I'm not neither one of us is the alcohol police, and I'm not saying don't ever drink again, but having reduced, significantly reduced my alcohol intake over the years has helped tremendously with my health generally, um, and especially with sleep.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

So 100%. Let's talk then about some uh to just finish off some practical tips. One of the trainings that we've just been doing in our membership, Club Fabulous Beyond 40, um, is a training that we're delivering tomorrow night, and it's about creating a sleep routine. We tend to base our thoughts on um how to create that routine around what we call a 3-2-1 method. Three being no food three hours before bed or no significant food three hours before bed, so your last big meal should be three hours before you go to bed. Two hours before bed, cut out work, one hour before bed. We used to say cut out screens. I think we're both edging now more to sort of like cut out the excitory shit, whether it be a screen or not, because a screen will definitely give you that blue light that that it's more excitory, more awakening. But then, you know, I speak to people that say, I can't get to sleep. Well, what did you do? Well, I did the 3-2-1 routine. Well, what was your last hour like? Well, I read the latest thriller novel by Stephen King. You think, well, I wonder why you went why you went to sleep and had terrible dreams then when you're just reading about all these people getting murdered or you're like ghosts coming out of a pet cemetery or whatever it may be. And so I think that one hour is probably more about just trying to find ways to chill out and and unwind out. I think the science shows us, and it's one of those things I'm constantly amazed by this, Julie, that all the stuff that we used to consider old wives' tales are actually really really important from a health perspective. As soon as people start researching into this kind of stuff and going, like does chewing your food loads help help they used to say chew your food 30 times, right? That's what I was always told by my mum. And you know, lo and behold, chewing your food really, really does help with digestion and lots of other things. And similar with uh sleep, eight hours sleep was the golden recommendation, wasn't it? Science now shows that eight hours is great, anything less than that causes challenges, but also anything more than that causes challenges as well. So I'd always advise people looking at this 321 routine to go fast forward. What does your morning look like tomorrow and then work backwards from then? So if you want to be up at 6, then your and your eight hours then goes back to 10. So your routine actually starts at 7 in the evening, and that's some people might think, gosh, I've only just got back from work, but yes, you have just got back from work, but also you're only a couple of hours away from bedtime, so you might as well start thinking about it. Nobody's saying to people, you have to go and get everything done, you get home from work, get your pajamas on straight away, which would probably challenge most of us, right? So that's what that's where what I'd think about. Um, I think the first two are almost kind of self-explanatory, but it might be worth talking about that second one. You know, sometimes the transition phase I think might be a good idea. So, yes, no work two hours beforehand, but you know, if it does creep up a little bit, first of all, you've got to start setting boundaries with work. You should not be working at eight o'clock at night unless you're a shift worker in some way, shape, or form. But also, maybe taking that last 15-20 minutes of work to actually do something that is less dynamic or less stressful. So maybe just looking at planning your day out the next day rather than firing off some angry emails to a client or a boss or or a co-worker or whatever it may be. So I think those transition phases work really well. Why don't you speak to us, Julie, a little bit about that last hour then? What are your tips for that wind down period over the last hour?

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah, that last hour, and I mean you you hear all of it, you know, do some meditation, do some breath work, and those are all amazing things for relaxing yourself and engaging your parasympathetic nervous system, which is our rest and digest system. But the truth is anything you find relaxing or calming is going to work. So that may be cuddling with a pet, it may be playing with a child or a grandchild, it may be um having a having a chat with a friend on the phone about nothing in particular. It may be coloring. I've once in a while I've got some adult coloring books. I love to color, um or doing some other kind of craft or or handiwork. Um there are tons and tons of restorative yoga videos available on YouTube that can be as much, you know, five or ten-minute routine that really helps you unwind. Reading something that's relaxing, um, having that cup of herbal tea. I don't my bedtime routine now is all messed up if I don't have my herbal tea. And and doing some self-care. We all talk about how little time we have for ourselves. One of the things I like to do that I'm getting back into the routine of of is going upstairs and you know, washing my face and doing some some skincare at night. I mean, I'm I'm getting older. I'm gonna I'm gonna do what I can to save off the wrinkles as long as I can. Um so that kind that kind of that feels really nice to me, and I that feels relaxing. The important thing is that whatever you choose to do needs to not be just another thing on your to-do list. It needs to be something that truly relaxes you and feels calming to you. And then it becomes non-negotiable because you realize it does feel really good and you look forward to that every evening. And then, of course, going to bed at the same time every night, even on the weekends wherever possible, because our bodies love routine, and it becomes easier to shut down and to get into that sleep mode if we're more consistent with that bedtime. Because if we're up until maybe 10 or 11 during the week, and then we stay up until one or two during the weekend, our bodies need need a lot of time to readjust back to our normal schedule. So trying to keep it as close as possible to going to bedtime and waking up time throughout the whole week.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Scheduling's so important, isn't it? I I'm sure that many of our listeners will either have had kids or if not kids, maybe have had an excitable puppy. And how do you train a baby, a newborn, or a toddler, or a puppy to to sleep? You you you give them a routine, don't you? And why don't we afford ourselves that same luxury as we get older? It's it's quite crazy that we sit there and we go, right, they've got to sleep between four and five in the afternoon, and they've got to sleep at seven o'clock at night, and and routine becomes key because it's the only way you can get through those challenging early days and and and teach or have a baby, a newborn, toddler, a puppy, be at its best and function at its best, and get to learn how to sleep properly is by by installing routine. So I'm 100% there with you. I think key in all this, as ever, is please don't try and change everything all at once. We've talked about loads of stuff you could try today. We've talked about changing the environment, changing your your bed clothes. One of the things that I forgot to say when it comes to bed clothes, I saw, I'm not sure whether they're available in Italy, but we've got Primark in every town centre here in the UK now, budget clothing store. I checked, they're all over the United States now. Even Primark, which is the cheapest clothing store in the entire world, now does a menopause friendly night range of clothes that are specially designed to wick away heat during hot sweats and things like that. So, another thing that you could try is looking for those clothes. You don't need Julie and I to recommend brands to you, you can just Google menopause nightwear, and there's lots and lots of brands out there now, and it doesn't look all food-duddy, you aren't gonna look like Florence Nightingale floating into your bedroom on a sea of calm, believe me. Um, so that is one thing to look at. Environment is another, making sure that the environment is really, really good, closing out blackout blinds, curtains, getting heavier drapes. If you review your sleeping area, what's your mattress like? I think we've not changed our mattress for about 13 years. I'm sure we must be due for a new one by by now. That's a lot of night's sleep that it's that it's had on it. Um, we've talked about some of the foods that you can try, things like Montberensea cherry juice, um, and we've talked about how to put a routine together. So instead of trying to do all that in one go, here's an invitation for myself and Julie. What is one thing that you could change tonight that might make your sleep a little bit better? And hopefully that is gonna help you to continue to feel fabulous beyond 40. We've been James Ellis and Julie Medesi. We'll see you next time. Take care, everybody.