SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hello and welcome to episode three of Empower Your Menopause with myself, Coach James, and my colleague at Fabulous Beyond Forty, Coach Julie. So episode one, we talked a little bit about ourselves, we talked about definitions of menopause and kind of what the symptoms are and things like that. Episode two, we went into talking about health coaching. Julie and I are health coaches. How can health coaches help women in menopause during the menopause transition, whether that be perimenopause, menopause itself, or postmenopause? Today we want to talk about a subject that is probably close to both of our hearts somewhat, maybe because we uh indulge a little bit ourselves at times. I know Julie and I both had courses on this before we started working together, so we're just going to talk today about self-sabotage, which is a massive issue for for many of us when it comes to our health and fitness journeys, but maybe sometimes even more so for women who are going through the menopause transition. So, Julie, I wonder if you just want to kick us off on this one and just tell us a little bit about how you understand self-sabotage, what it means, and how it does affect women in the menopause transition.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Sure. This this is a topic near and dear to my heart because it's something I struggled with for a lot of my life as well. And I it when we decided that for this topic for the episode, I I went online because I was curious about is there an official definition somewhere? And we all have our idea of what self-sabotage might be. And psychology today has a definition that says behavior is said to be self-sabotaging when it creates problems and interferes with long-standing goals. So what does that mean? I like to simplify things. My definition is self-sabotage is when our actions don't match our intentions. And a lot of times we say, I want to be healthier or I want to lose weight or I want to get more fit, and then the things we do don't actually help us get there. We still go out for taco Tuesday and we still have you know, happy hour on Friday, and sometimes we we tend to overindulge because it for it it's not out of malice or or a um some kind of defect. I find self-sabotage happens as part of our subconscious mind's uh um attempts to to solve a problem. So we don't intentionally hurt ourselves, but if if we learn, like when we were little and we fell down and scraped our knee and mom gave us a cookie, that didn't have to happen too many times before we learned that cookies make us feel better. And a lot of those beliefs and behaviors are ingrained in our subconscious mind so deeply that we don't know they're there. And there are also physiological reasons for this we we can talk about, but but I find that that initial reaction to something difficult or uncomfortable that happens in our lives when we're on this great trajectory toward our goals and then something gets in the way, those are the things that come up first, those are the go-to behaviors and responses that we have because that's what we know, that's what we're conditioned to do.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

I suppose it's a way of keeping us safe at times as well, isn't it? The fact that if we don't try to do something or we don't attempt to do something, it can often be a really easy way of not having to face something that might be challenging for for whatever reason it may be. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about how you think it shows up, particularly in this age group, then the age group that we speak to, 40 plus women potentially starting to be challenged by hormonal issues, etc.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yeah, it's especially this this time of life, it's I won't say fun, but it's r it's interesting because we start to crave things that are the opposite of what our bodies need. Our hormonal fluctuations are are real, they they cause a physiological response in our in our brains and and throughout our bodies. And a lot of the a lot of what we do is we we crave things that we think, oh I I can't we tell ourselves I can't have that, I shouldn't have that. Um we res we're so used to restricting ourselves that when these natural feelings come up, um we we get we it's eas it's easier to get in our own way. Um especially when those cravings are so strong from a hormonal perspective, because that's that is a very real thing. Um and because we tend to store fat differently, um, especially preferentially around the belly, if we're in a high period of high stress, um, we don't make the best decisions for ourselves. And most women in menopause, I know everybody's stressed these days, we we wear that like a badge of honor, but especially menopause, because we have all these changes happening to our bodies that we might not realize. We have all of these other things going on in our lives that are are burdening us and adding and adding to our to-do list and to our responsibilities. And so when we want to feel better, what's more natural to reach for than things that we found comforting throughout our lives?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah, yeah. So so how does it show up then? I know that when I did my course, I was talking about things like procrastination, perfectionism. You know, how do you find it actually actually shows up? Procrastination is personally my number one. You know, I'm the archetypical person who if I feel that something's gonna challenge me, I will find anything to do to put it off. You know, suddenly stacking the dishwasher, my most hated task at home, becomes my favorite task because why would I not want to stash uh uh stack the dishwasher, right? All of a sudden when it's something that I normally don't enjoy doing at all.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah. Well, and and when we're when we're in this period of life and we're finding ourselves with a lot of brain fog um and not feeling super energized, it's easy to uh engage in what what our coach likes to call as productive procrastination. So that is that is a big one. And I think there's some interesting things that I think drive it. The thing I I find it shows up with the most is is stuffing down emotions with food. Or or wine or whatever your beverage of choice might be in this in this stage of life. Wine nights with the girls and chocolate and late night snacking episodes. I have I have worked with a number of clients who have felt a lot of shame around that. So they hide things. So that instead of procr procrastination and and hiding, I think, are kind of similar. Like we we just shove these things away, we don't want anybody to know about the things that that we're afraid of or the things that we're doing. So we we avoid avoidance, procrastination. I think that all kind of falls into the into the same bucket. Um the probably the biggest one. And I see a lot of a lot of fear, um hesitation to do hesitation to do things that we know will help us feel better. Um there's a sometimes a feeling of unworthiness because we're not used to taking care of ourselves first. But procrastination probably would be the number one procrastination and avoidance. Social media, we get really involved in social media, you know, suddenly we want to call our parents or our friends and you know do all of those do all of those tasks instead of facing what what we really need to do to be facing.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yeah. I I tend to find that perfectionism is another one that comes up a lot as well, that people, unless they can do something perfectly, it it's kind of like a barrier to to them. And the barrier again, it it's coming back to this issue of avoidance, really, isn't it? If I can't do it 100% perfectly, I just won't bother doing it at all. And really, you know, life's not like that, is it? Life is no progress is ever linear, no journey is ever linear. Yeah, it's always got its ups and downs, it oscillates, things things things change, and I just find that this is a real challenging one that I see with many of the people that I speak to, this idea that I won't do something unless I can get it a hundred percent right.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

And there's also a lot of I I hear a lot of overwhelm with people, but they find that they can't say no to things. Like by saying yes to other people, by saying yes to other projects that feel worthy, like they're doing something good, it it's focusing externally. Um and again, I mean we can all come back to the same avoidance and procrastination, and we're we're trying to soothe feelings that we're not allowing ourselves to feel is is what it boils down to in my mind, because we aren't taught to to feel you know, don't be a good girl, don't cry, don't don't let 'em get you down. And sometimes we end up treating ourselves with toxic positivity, or our friends and family do unknowingly that just aggravates us further.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah. Soldiering on, it always amazes me when I see somebody who's already got a hugely full schedule with a ton of things to do. You know, they've got the kids and they've got work and they've got the partners and everything else, and then suddenly the PTA comes calling, or the you know, like Saturday soccer run or whatever it may be, ferrying kids around, tacting other people's kids around, or whatever. And saying no can be a real challenge for a lot of a lot of women, can't it, at this age group? And I wonder if you've got any strategies maybe for helping people when it comes to actually being able to do that in a way that feels authentic and in a way that feels as though they can do it without feeling as though they're letting somebody down at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Sure. Um the first thing I would say is that we are not responsible for everyone else and everyone else's feelings, even though sometimes it may feel that way. Um, unless we're talking about immediate uh children and and spouse, and we're not responsible for the way they feel, but maybe we can't just back off of whatever they it is that they need. But I like to go on the philosophy that no is a complete sentence. You don't have to offer an explanation. Um and people aren't used to hearing that. So learning how to set boundaries, I think, is one of the best best initial steps. And there's some really good books on the subject. I love Brene Brown is has some really great ideas on this on this topic. And I can't think of the authors, but I can put them in the show notes. There are a few other books about boundaries that I think are really helpful because we when we set those boundaries, it gives us lots of flexibility to to operate within so we can choose what to say yes to. And I I think the other thing is sitting down for a few minutes and thinking about what are my priorities, what is really most important to me, what lights me up so that I can say yes to that. Because every time we say yes to something we want to say no to, we're we're saying no to something that we want to say yes to. There's only so much to go around. And it's it's also better because we lose a lot of self-trust when we say yes to something and then don't follow it through. Or we start to feel overwhelmed and we don't feel capable of doing the best job that we can at these different things. So so it helps to rebuild that self-trust by being able to say no because you can always say yes later. So so I I try to work from there, and I and I still struggle with this too, so I totally get how difficult it can be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

It it also adds another layer to those barriers of women in this age group putting themselves last in the hierarchy of who does what, because you know you've got all the close things, family, friends, whatever, suddenly PTA come calling or the sports lifts come calling, or whatever it may be, and it just is another step away from actually being able to achieve what you want to achieve as the individual, isn't it? Because the more stuff you stack into an already busy schedule, if you're already feeling overwhelmed, you're already feeling as though you don't have enough time for self-care, if you're already aware of the fact that you put yourself back at the list, but you're so such a caring person that you want to look after everybody else first, you're just putting yourself yet another step further back down that line in the queue of somebody who needs some help and care. And I always say it's all very well being the carer, but who's caring for the carer in in this kind of situation? Because you are unless you're looking after yourself, prioritizing yourself, putting yourself first at times, you are never gonna get away from things, and then what happens when you do burn out or you can't do it anymore, or you just literally collapse? Then who cares for all those people that you make such a totem of caring about? And I'm not saying don't care about your family and friends, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Sure, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah, that old adage though putting putting on the on your life vest and your oxygen mask before anybody else's, right? It's absolutely true.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Well, and I here's a question to ask, and this may be a little blunt for some of our listeners, but I like to ask this question why don't you feel you deserve the same time and energy for yourself that you give to other people?

SPEAKER_00 14:59

I mean, that's a tough question that requires a lot of introspection from somebody, doesn't it, really, to be able to come up with the answer.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

It really it really does. But it's something to to s to just noodle on, you know, let it let it simmer in your mind and start looking at all the places in your life where you are giving others all of that energy and attention and ha what feelings come up for you and where do you stop yourself from looking after yourself and your own needs. Because think about it, the people who love you want you to be happy and they want you to be healthy and vibrant. So of course, if you t explain to them at some point, I need a little bit of time. I need a I need I I had a client I worked with on this once and she just said, I can't get five minutes to myself. I said, Have you asked for it? Well no. Well, how are your other friends and family members supposed to know that you need that time unless you tell them you do? So she started saying, I need ten minutes on my own, and she would go upstairs to her bedroom and and do some breath work or relax or just lie in the bed or stare out the window, whatever it was, that she just needed some time to decompress. And that became a finally became a ritual for her because she was so much more present for her family when she went back downstairs, and that ten minutes didn't really make a big difference to anyone else. But for her it was really, really meaningful, and that became a non-negotiable thing for her when she finally was able to ask for that for herself.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah. I find sometimes that this wearing busyness as a badge of honour can often it's not only self-defeating, but sometimes it's actually not always true. If you sit and make a time diary of what you might be doing during a day and just carry that over for two or three or four days, most people will find that they actually do have five minutes, but you don't need much more to get started. Small acorns grow into great trees, etc. And so just finding that five minutes is often a lot easier than what you may initially think it is, because you're so busy all the time that you don't even realise that the that there might be times where things like escapism come into that business as well, where you do just sit scrolling Instagram or social media for 10, 20, 30 minutes mindlessly, and even just cutting back and and yeah, great, enjoy your escapism, but then recognize that that is a form of escapism, and perhaps instead of using social as escapism, perhaps you could find five or ten minutes just to give to your to yourself at times like that.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah, and it's not about feeling like okay, I have to use every moment of every day to be productive. That five minutes could be sitting and looking at a nice view, or reading a couple of pages of a book, or just focusing on your breath, doing a meditation, doing some stretching, you know, getting your body. A lot of times I find that self-sabotage comes when we get too much into our head. And the best way to get out of your head is to move your body and shift the energy a bit.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah, and sometimes the best thing to do is just do something. Doesn't matter how big it is or or whatever it may be. We often think that we what the things that hold us back are the idea of I've got to do an hour a day in the gym, or I've got to cook healthily every single day, or I've got to do X, Y, or Z. Whereas really just taking five minutes to yourself can have huge, huge benefits.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah. It it will definitely compound. Um, you know, and and some s there are there are different forms of self-sabotage, and one of the things that that I think we don't relate to self-sabotage, but I see as a form of self-sabotage, is we get started on uh a program. Okay, so I'm going to I'm gonna try meditation because I've heard it's really good for me. And then I do it a couple days and I think, mm, and then I've heard this other methodology, this other thing, this kind of specific kind of breath work is is better for me. So then I go and I try that for a couple days. And we start jumping around, and especially when it comes to diet programs, we start jumping around from thing to thing to thing. And it's good that we're trying things and being curious, but if we're doing it because we don't see instant results, we have to have that shiny new object or whatever it is, we're actually sabotaging our efforts by not staying focused and consistent on the one thing that might really help us the most. Things take time, we need to be patient and curious about them.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

I had a client who was challenged with weight loss for a uh a long time and convincing her not to jump on yet another diet and just stick with it and be consistent and keep things going. And the truth is, for most of us, consistency is is boring, right? We live in a world whereby everything changes every two seconds, and that old adage of you know slow and steady can win the race really needs to come to the fore at at these times, and rather than just sort of like saying, right, I've tried it for two weeks, it doesn't work, I'm gonna try something else.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

You've got trillions of cells in your body, trillions of cells in your body. Anything you do, whether it's mental, emotional, physical, it takes time for your body to adjust and get the message of what you're sending. Not to mention the fact that at this age we've got 40 or 50 or 60 years of experience doing things a particular way. We're not going to completely undo all of that overnight. It's going to take some time, and as you said, James, steady, slow and steady, consistent practice. And it's good to be boring. Sometimes we say, Oh, I just want the world to slow down for a little while. What a great way to slow it down by getting into a routine like this for yourself, for your self care, for your body, so that you don't have to think about it. I I find that to be to be a really helpful tool. Okay. Just try to remember that.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, so we've talked a lot about what's Self-s sabotages, how it shows up. Let's get get practical. What are the kind of steps that somebody can take to break out break out of this kind of routine?

SPEAKER_01 22:14

One of my favorite things to do, well, first of all, is ask that question I asked earlier, but here's an easier here's an easier question. And we learn these and it's called two crazy questions. So I like to say what is we we there's something we want to change. Let's let's go to weight loss because that's really common with our clients. I want to lose weight, but I keep sabotaging myself. What's bad about losing weight? What what would be bad about losing weight? It could be, oh well, I I don't see myself as a as a thin person, or I don't see myself as a fit person, or I'd have to buy new clothes, or I would have to give up my Friday night happy hour, or you know, whatever we think may be the the bad thing about that. And then what's good about not changing. And that might be, well, I I can stay where I'm comfortable, I can keep doing the things that I know. I don't have to think about doing something different that that I might have to learn how to do. And a lot of times the we can see some underlying themes between those two questions that can be very eye-opening. Um I I find that to be a really good starting point because we don't until we're aware of what's going on in our mind, or until we're aware of the actual behaviors that we're that we're exhibiting, we um it's pretty hard to change them.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah. So so that's an awareness exercise, really, isn't it? Trying to get people more in tune with how they're actually feeling about the possibility of change in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah, exactly.

unknown 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

And then and then developing uh your self-trust through taking smaller steps. We don't, as James said, we don't have to take this massive action, we just have to do something. So what's the tiniest thing? How can you break something down into a step that's so small that there's no way you can't do it? When you find out what that is, then do that. And it may not feel like anything. But when you start doing that over and over again, that will compound and grow it at such a rate. I I think it makes you it it helps you grow faster. It helps you change faster than trying to attack something from this massive plays, right? Make these massive changes, and then we end up getting discouraged and giving up.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Yeah. Yeah. That comes from partly is uh based around the idea of um tiny habits, isn't it? The book by BJ Fogg, where he says, pick the smallest step that's so small that you wouldn't even fall over it. So you can't even trip yourself up. So just pick the smallest thing. So it may be if you commit to going to the gym, step one may just be getting your gym kit ready the night before. Before you go, and you might you might want to settle with that for a couple of days, first of all, just having your gym kit ready every night, ready to go. Then the next step is to actually get in the car and drive to the gym or walk to the gym, and then the next step is to get into the gym, so you're constantly building on these tiny habits all the time and and doing something. I like that saying ATT ACT. It's actually an acronym, action changes things, and we often wait for this idea of motivation. I've got to be ready to go out and you know run three miles or five miles or whatever it may be. When actually that motivation it's it's fickle because you might get up the next day and think to yourself, actually, I don't want to run three miles today, or I don't want to run five miles today. And so just picking a really small step and saying, right, I'm just gonna walk 100 yards to the end of the road or 200 yards to the end of the road, or I'm gonna walk run a quadrant, do something that you know that you can achieve because as soon as you do achieve it and you celebrate that achievement, then that gives you the spur to then build on that and make it bigger and bigger and bigger each time you want to try and enhance that change.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yep. And and something else I find helps a lot is reframing instead of I have to do this, I need to do this. How about I get to do this? I'm looking forward to having this experience, even if you're not, you can tell yourself that, and after it really changes the energy that the of your thoughts and it changes your view of of the thing that you want to do when you get to do it. I mean, instead of saying, Oh, I have to work out today, I get to work out today, right? That it just that little shift can can make a a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Yeah. Have puts a lot of pressure into a sentence as a word, doesn't it? As soon as you start saying I have to do something, and most of us are inherently slightly rebellious, I th I think. And as soon as somebody says you have to do this, a little bit of us, even if we're telling that to ourselves, I have to do this, it prickles and it and it and it gets to you a little bit. And I think that is sometimes another way that you end up self-sabotaging by saying to yourself, no, I I I don't have to do it, um, despite the fact that you're telling yourself you have to do it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Totally. I call that my inner two-year-old, like, oh yeah, watch me.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

I'll show you what I have to do, yeah, exactly. Yeah, okay, so we're coming up to the end of this episode. Um, we'd like to try and keep them around 30 minutes so they're easily digestible so that you can listen to them either in the car or on the run or at the gym or or whatever. Um we mentioned this tool last time out, but the master your menopause mindset uh course, mind over menopause, it's a really good way of getting yourself just a vision statement which can help combat self-sabotage because that training that we did together, Julie, that helps people create a statement, a vision statement for where they want to go in the future, and that can really help guide decisions, can't it? When we're looking at self-sabotage.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Absolutely. Understanding why you know where you want to get to and why you want to get there will make such a difference instead of just doing what you feel like you're supposed to be doing for whatever reason or following someone else's rules, when you set when you set the goal and when you set the the reasons behind it and you and you take those actions towards it, you can ask yourself every time, is this going to help me get there? And and some days the answer is no and you say, Okay, then I'm not going to do it. And some days the answer is no and you say, I'm going to do it anyway. But that is a conscious decision then instead of a reaction. And you get to make you get to make the choice yourself. And it's okay, as as James said earlier, progress is never in a straight line anyway. So when you make those choices along the way, it's easier to course correct and get yourself back on the the right trajectory because you know where you're going.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Yeah. Okay, fabulous. So I think we'll wrap there. Just um a quick little teaser for something that's coming up. Julie and I have a free training coming up on three days of the first three days of August. We're just putting the final touches to it. It's called Four Lifestyle Secrets to Reclaim Your Energy Driving Confidence. The subtitle is the Fabulous Beyond 40 Formula. So we're going to go through four really simple steps that you can take just to start to move along in your menopause journey. We'll be releasing some more details about that maybe next time out or the time after that. But look out for that coming up either in the feed or we'll announce it on the podcast or in one of our emails coming up. But that's it for this week, then. So thanks Julie. Really interesting chat today. It's been Coach Julie, Coach James saying stay fabulous beyond 40, and we will see you next time. Take care.